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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
- Start date
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(interpretation of the meaning):
“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?
Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.”
[al-Baqarah 2:106-107].
What's this about then?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Spread of Islam in
Croatia: [1]
Mosque of Rijeka, completed in 2013
Location of Mosques in Croatia
Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28% Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]
Islam was first introduced in Croatia by the Ottoman Empire during the Croatian–Ottoman Wars that lasted from 15th to 19th century. During this period some parts of the Croatian Kingdom were occupied which resulted in numerous Croats converting toIslam, some after being taken prisoners of war, some through the devşirme system. Nonetheless, Croats strongly fought against the Turks during these few centuries which resulted in the fact that the westernmost border of the Ottoman Empire and Europebecame entrenched on the Croatian soil. In 1519, Croatia was called the Antemurale Christianitatis by Pope Leo X.
The Islamic Community of Croatia (Mešihat Islamske Zajednice u Hrvatskoj) is the main organization of Muslims in Croatia that is officially recognized by the state.[2] The President of the Islamic Community is Aziz Effendi Hasanović.[3]
As of 2011, 62.977 Muslims live in Croatia. Most of them declare themselves as Bosniaks (27.959) while others declare themselves as: Croats (9.647), Albanians (9.594), Roma (5.039), Turks (343), Macedonians (217), Montenegrins (159) and other (2.420).[1]
The first mosque in Croatia was built in Gunja in 1969.[4] Today there are 17 mosques as well as two Islamic centers (in Zagreb[5] andRijeka[6]).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Croatia
Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Spread of Islam in
Croatia: [1]
Mosque of Rijeka, completed in 2013
Location of Mosques in Croatia
Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28% Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]
Islam was first introduced in Croatia by the Ottoman Empire during the Croatian–Ottoman Wars that lasted from 15th to 19th century. During this period some parts of the Croatian Kingdom were occupied which resulted in numerous Croats converting toIslam, some after being taken prisoners of war, some through the devşirme system. Nonetheless, Croats strongly fought against the Turks during these few centuries which resulted in the fact that the westernmost border of the Ottoman Empire and Europebecame entrenched on the Croatian soil. In 1519, Croatia was called the Antemurale Christianitatis by Pope Leo X.
The Islamic Community of Croatia (Mešihat Islamske Zajednice u Hrvatskoj) is the main organization of Muslims in Croatia that is officially recognized by the state.[2] The President of the Islamic Community is Aziz Effendi Hasanović.[3]
As of 2011, 62.977 Muslims live in Croatia. Most of them declare themselves as Bosniaks (27.959) while others declare themselves as: Croats (9.647), Albanians (9.594), Roma (5.039), Turks (343), Macedonians (217), Montenegrins (159) and other (2.420).[1]
The first mosque in Croatia was built in Gunja in 1969.[4] Today there are 17 mosques as well as two Islamic centers (in Zagreb[5] andRijeka[6]).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Croatia
Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Spread of Islam in
Mosque of Rijeka, completed in 2013
Location of Mosques in Croatia
Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28% Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]
Islam was first introduced in Croatia by the Ottoman Empire during the Croatian–Ottoman Wars that lasted from 15th to 19th century. During this period some parts of the Croatian Kingdom were occupied which resulted in numerous Croats converting toIslam, some after being taken prisoners of war, some through the devşirme system. Nonetheless, Croats strongly fought against the Turks during these few centuries which resulted in the fact that the westernmost border of the Ottoman Empire and Europebecame entrenched on the Croatian soil. In 1519, Croatia was called the Antemurale Christianitatis by Pope Leo X.
The Islamic Community of Croatia (Mešihat Islamske Zajednice u Hrvatskoj) is the main organization of Muslims in Croatia that is officially recognized by the state.[2] The President of the Islamic Community is Aziz Effendi Hasanović.[3]
As of 2011, 62.977 Muslims live in Croatia. Most of them declare themselves as Bosniaks (27.959) while others declare themselves as: Croats (9.647), Albanians (9.594), Roma (5.039), Turks (343), Macedonians (217), Montenegrins (159) and other (2.420).[1]
The first mosque in Croatia was built in Gunja in 1969.[4] Today there are 17 mosques as well as two Islamic centers (in Zagreb[5] andRijeka[6]).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Croatia
Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
Thanks for completely ignoring my point on abrogation
the Quran clearly confirms verses were abrogated, if there was no abrogation (as you state) then there are clear contradictions in the Quran such as the verses dealing with alcohol.History shows that Islam was spread by the sword. Why don't you refute the point made earlier about the Ridda wars? If the Arabs were allowed to apostatise as they wished at the time, would Islam have expanded to the extent it did? I don't think so, and that's purely down to the fact that people were first forcefully made to accept Islam, and then they were forced to remain Muslim after Muhammad's death.
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
Bukhari 4:52:220
The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat." The first part of this condition is the Shahada, or profession of faith in Islam. Violence is thus sanctioned until the victims embrace Muhammad's religion.
Sahih Muslim 1:33
Last edited:
Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:
Spread of Islam in
Mosque of Rijeka, completed in 2013
Location of Mosques in Croatia
Islam is the second-largest faith in Croatia after Christianity. The religion is followed by 1.47% of the country's population according to the 2011 census, compared to 86.28% Roman Catholics, 4.57% not religious, atheists, agnostics and sceptics, 4.44% Orthodox Christians and 0.34% Protestants.[1]
Islam was first introduced in Croatia by the Ottoman Empire during the Croatian–Ottoman Wars that lasted from 15th to 19th century. During this period some parts of the Croatian Kingdom were occupied which resulted in numerous Croats converting toIslam, some after being taken prisoners of war, some through the devşirme system. Nonetheless, Croats strongly fought against the Turks during these few centuries which resulted in the fact that the westernmost border of the Ottoman Empire and Europebecame entrenched on the Croatian soil. In 1519, Croatia was called the Antemurale Christianitatis by Pope Leo X.
The Islamic Community of Croatia (Mešihat Islamske Zajednice u Hrvatskoj) is the main organization of Muslims in Croatia that is officially recognized by the state.[2] The President of the Islamic Community is Aziz Effendi Hasanović.[3]
As of 2011, 62.977 Muslims live in Croatia. Most of them declare themselves as Bosniaks (27.959) while others declare themselves as: Croats (9.647), Albanians (9.594), Roma (5.039), Turks (343), Macedonians (217), Montenegrins (159) and other (2.420).[1]
The first mosque in Croatia was built in Gunja in 1969.[4] Today there are 17 mosques as well as two Islamic centers (in Zagreb[5] andRijeka[6]).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Croatia
Muslim population in Croatia: It increased from 4,000 in 1931 to 62,977 in 2011.
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:60,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :1.4
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards
And we're not talking about Islam in Croatia, we're talking about how it was initially spread, what tactics did the early Muslims use to spread Islam.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Thanks for completely ignoring my point on abrogation
Welcome to Threads by and with paarsurrey.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
For the very initial spread of Islam, please see Muhammad's life in Mecca. After being appointed by G-d a prophet/messenger he spent 13 years in Mecca from of his 23 years of ministry. For your convenience and ready to read mode, one may like to access the following link:
Life of Muhammads
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You are such a nice friend. Aren't you?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
No Muslim considers Sahiah Bukhari and Sahih Muslim an alternative of Quran.
Please quote the verse where abrogation is mentioned in Quran.
Regards
“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?
Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.”
[al-Baqarah 2:106-107].
I like how you keep referring us to his life in Makkah, he did live in Medinah as well you know lol. He basically wiped out a tribe of Jews called the Banu Qurayzah whilst there.
The peace in Makkah was largely due to the tolerance of the Makkans and the fact that Muhammad had no army. Just imagine if someone came to Medinah announcing Prophet hood whilst he was in charge, you think that would be peaceful?
Forgot about this one:
When We substitute a verse in place of a verse, and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down, they say: You are but a forger! But most of them do not know.
Surat An-Nahl 16:101
gnostic
The Lost One
Don't worry about it, Ex Muslims. He does that to everyone.Thanks for completely ignoring my point on abrogation
And you know paarsurrey is ignoring you when you replied to him with a question or two of your own, when he start copy-and-paste a new Wikipedia article of one country or another, and then claim that "Islam did not spread through wars" or "by the sword".
But the funniest thing is when he quote something in which Islam did spread because of invasion, like for example, the Wiki on Croatia and Islam.
Wikipedia on Islam in Croatia said:
It is funny how paarsurrey miss these two parts about "prisoners of war" and the "devsirme system", and still say people are not forced into Islam.
I often wondered if he can understand what he read...
gnostic
The Lost One
And you are ignoring the rest of Muhammad's life. Are you going to ignore the time he spent in Medina and when he returned to Mecca, to the final years of his life?
Of course you are. It is one of your notorious habits.
When Ex Muslim or I write about the initial spread of Islam, we meant from the day he proclaimed himself as prophet, to the day he died, hence from 610 to 632. He started Islam, so he initiated Islam, from day 1, to the day of his death. That's the whole stage of his prophethood.
Then what followed is the first of caliphates; that's after the beginning of Islam.
How terribly selective and narrow-minded?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
We cannot expunge 13 years of Muhammad's precious life after he was appointed a truthful prophet/messenger of G-d. Jesus total ministry was only 3 years that is always discussed, and we are discussing first here 13 years of Muhammad's life. Why one wants to do it?
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
I am not forgetting his 13 years as a prophet, before he arrived at Medina. But his prophethood start from 610 and ended in 632 with his death.
But you are choosing to ignore completely when he arrived at Medina, and began his path as a warlord, hell-bent at seeking revenge on all who won't accept him as a prophet.
His time in revealed his true colour, that he was peace-seeking person.
Why do you ignore the times, when Muhammad began raiding and robbing merchants (623 - 624)?
This is the real cause of the war with Mecca; there was no war between Meccans and Muslims, until he began these raids, so Muhammad actually initiated the war.
Why do you ignore that he punished several Jewish tribes, just because they didn't accept him as a prophet?
Why did he approve of assassinations in 624? Why didn't he arrest and try the 2 assassins? If he approve of political murders, then it is obvious that law against murders don't really apply to Muslims, because the victims were non-Muslims.
And when Mecca did surrender to him in 630, why did he feel the need to execute some leaders? There was no trials, just executions. That's not justice, but revenge.
Why did he force the city of Ta'if that the only surrender he will receive, if they converted, in 630? Why did he attack Ta'if in the first place?
Why did he enter Byzantine territory, and start a war with Byzantines?
The law don't apply to to him, because he has the power. And Muhammad had no real power (political and military powers) until he left Mecca for Medina. Apparently the powers have corrupted him, because he was no longer a man of peace.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Post #3283
don't cause any violence.
It is political extremism and reflects abuse of of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and is against their peaceful teachings. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad timely warned against it and explained the concept of blood-thirsty Mahdi of the extremist Muslims which has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad:
"Let it be known that most Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) went alive to the heavens; both these people have believed for a long time that Jesus (on whom be peace) is still alive in the heavens, and will sometime in the latter days come down to the earth. The difference in their views, i.e. the view of the followers of Islam and that of the Christians, is only this, that the Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) died on the Cross, was resurrected, and went to the heavens in his earthly body, seated himself on the right hand of his Father, and will come to the earth in the latter days for judgment; they also say that the Creator and the Master of the world is this Jesus the Messiah and no one else; he it is who, in the latter days of the world, will descend to the earth with a glorious descent to award punishment and reward; then, all who will not believe in him or his mother as God, will be hauled up and thrown into hell, where weeping and wailing will be their lot. But the aforesaid sects of Muslims say that Jesus (on whom be peace) was not crucified, nor did he die on the Cross; on the other hand, when the Jews arrested him in order to crucify him an angel of God took him away to the heavens in his earthly body, and he is still alive in the heavens - which, they say, is the second heaven where is also the prophet Yahya, i.e. John. Muslims, moreover, also say that Jesus (on whom be peace) is an eminent prophet of God, but not God, nor the son of God, and, they believe that he will in the latter days descend to the earth, near the Minaret of Damascus or near some other place, supported on the shoulders of two angels, and that he and Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, who will be already in the world, and who will be a Fatimite, will kill all the non-Muslims, not leaving anyone alive except those who will forthwith and without any delay become Muslims."
"Jesus in India" published in 1908.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html
Hence, under the peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah/ Imam-Mahdi has started the movement of Reformation of Religion under the name of Ahmadiyya which is peaceful and never resort to any violence.
Regards
don't cause any violence.
It is political extremism and reflects abuse of of Islam/Quran/Muhammad and is against their peaceful teachings. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad timely warned against it and explained the concept of blood-thirsty Mahdi of the extremist Muslims which has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad:
"Let it be known that most Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) went alive to the heavens; both these people have believed for a long time that Jesus (on whom be peace) is still alive in the heavens, and will sometime in the latter days come down to the earth. The difference in their views, i.e. the view of the followers of Islam and that of the Christians, is only this, that the Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) died on the Cross, was resurrected, and went to the heavens in his earthly body, seated himself on the right hand of his Father, and will come to the earth in the latter days for judgment; they also say that the Creator and the Master of the world is this Jesus the Messiah and no one else; he it is who, in the latter days of the world, will descend to the earth with a glorious descent to award punishment and reward; then, all who will not believe in him or his mother as God, will be hauled up and thrown into hell, where weeping and wailing will be their lot. But the aforesaid sects of Muslims say that Jesus (on whom be peace) was not crucified, nor did he die on the Cross; on the other hand, when the Jews arrested him in order to crucify him an angel of God took him away to the heavens in his earthly body, and he is still alive in the heavens - which, they say, is the second heaven where is also the prophet Yahya, i.e. John. Muslims, moreover, also say that Jesus (on whom be peace) is an eminent prophet of God, but not God, nor the son of God, and, they believe that he will in the latter days descend to the earth, near the Minaret of Damascus or near some other place, supported on the shoulders of two angels, and that he and Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, who will be already in the world, and who will be a Fatimite, will kill all the non-Muslims, not leaving anyone alive except those who will forthwith and without any delay become Muslims."
"Jesus in India" published in 1908.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html
Hence, under the peaceful teachings of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah/ Imam-Mahdi has started the movement of Reformation of Religion under the name of Ahmadiyya which is peaceful and never resort to any violence.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Then why doesn't one discuss what happened first?
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
Not forgetting anything.
Did you read the thread topic, the OP?
It is specifically about, "Did Islam spread through wars?"
Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't.
And to look at it, you need to look at not just the 1st 13 years as prophet, but all 22 years. And
That's the origin of Islam, Muhammad's life from 610 to 632. And part of it was him starting wars, taking revenge upon those who slighted him.
With the example of Ta'if (in 630), Muhammad left the people of that choice, death or slavery, or conversion; Muhammad left them with the only condition of surrender. That's clearly compulsion.
The other part of Islam's history, the successive caliphates, and all wars, invasions and battles involved in spreading Islam.
The thing is every time I bring up Ta'if and other issues, like the raids on caravans, the assassinations he had condoned, the fates of Banu Qurayza and Banu Qaynupa, you have refused to address those issues about Muhammad's involvement.
If you are not going to address questions put to you, then why are you even in this thread?
All those Wikipedia articles you have copy-and-paste, didn't support a lot of your claims, and you refused to address questions about the articles you have copied, and clearly didn't understand...or that you have selectively and dishonestly ignored.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I don't agree with one's stance.
The topic of the thread is "Was Islam spread by the sword?"
Spread of Islam started when Muhammad was chosen by G-d as a messenger/prophet for guidance to the whole world.
It is very rational to start from the above origin. Who were the first converts to Islam? What sword was used to convince them?Does one know?
Regards
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