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Vegans have 43% more bone fractures

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
In my family of non-vegetarians, I am the only one who is vegetarian. I noticed that my brothers and father suffered from painful kidney stones and had operations in this regard, which I never had
Congrats,
Good to read you're doing so well

I gave your post a winner and noticed pressing winner made the frubal look like a bodybuilder torso pushing arms in the air; strong torso

Elephants and some big apes are vegans and have incredible bodies and strength. I wonder how they do this, must be push-ups, those I don't do:)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I think you might be caring too much about the dietary choices of others, based on your posts in this thread. I love my steak and chicken, and I don't have a problem with vegans and vegetarians. Freedom of choice is pretty nice.
Freedom of choice I like

I am sure that chicken likes it too

(not to be on men's "to eat list")

Just saying

But I do agree with freedom of choice (for all)
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Freedom of choice I like

I am sure that chicken likes it too

(not to be on men's "to eat list")

I see merit in that viewpoint, although there are other facets to that subject that would probably be tangential to this thread. Perhaps we could discuss them in more depth sometime.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I see merit in that viewpoint, although there are other facets to that subject that would probably be tangential to this thread. Perhaps we could discuss them in more depth sometime.
I agree, there are so many facets

I remember when I was ca. 10 years old, we, as a family, were eating everyting (veg + non-veg), then one day we had chicken on the table, and I and my systers knew intuitively that this time it were our "own" chicken we were playing with previous days

We became instantly more aware about
"To kill or not to kill"
At least in this specific area, because we could feel much better the impact on eating chicken, as it were our own chicken. Something similar like "disgust to eat other humans" (I read in the news that Sweden proposed to put human flesh on the menu, to take care of shortage of food. In a way, that seemed a good and fair plan to me, but I rather stick to vegetarian menu;), glad I don't live in Sweden, though I did not hear they implemented this plan yet...luckily)
Funny detail, giving up chicken was the hardest part to give up, as I really loved our socalled "baguette chicken curry", luckily I also loved "baguette french cheese", so finally I managed to give up chicken, 10 year after gradually changing my diet

I am glad no one forced vegetarianism onto me, as I know how hard it is to give up diet I am used.to, hence I would never force diet change on others or tell them what they do is wrong etc.
And remembering Swedish plans, now I hope they never force human flesh on me. Freedom of choice is extremely important for any creature, although plenty of animals eat other animals...at least I'm happy they don't eat humans. IF I could choose (if I were the almighty Creator) all desire to stick to vegetarianism (I'm a softy, rather stay far from violence and killing), as to minimize all the violence, fear, hate and anger, but alas, not my call.

Seems part of evolution, all this violence. But I do see improvement evolving to less violence

Here in Holland they gradually banned smoking completely almost, and since 2020 I sense a strong plan to ban non-veg food too (from the government).
I do hope the government doesn't use voodoo-like measures as they used while banning cigarettes (each pack had the words "smoking will kill you" or something similar. Since age 5 I was strongly against smoking, but such voodoo like phrases I disapprove off. And it is not even scientifically proven (it might kill you, not it will kill you)
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think you might be caring too much about the dietary choices of others, based on your posts in this thread. I love my steak and chicken, and I don't have a problem with vegans and vegetarians. Freedom of choice is pretty nice.
I think you don't know what you are talking about. I care about people. It is because I do that I share information with them, such as the OP link, which they should consider and which could benefit them. I don't have any "problem" with vegans nor vegetarians.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I think you don't know what you are talking about. I care about people. It is because I do that I share information with them, such as the OP link, which they should consider and which could benefit them. I don't have any "problem" with vegans nor vegetarians.

The OP link is a study with a questionable conclusion and no clear control of the numerous variables that could affect what it is measuring (the rate of bone fractures).

Also, if you have no problem with vegans or vegetarians, what was this comment about?

Sort of sounds like heaven.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The OP link is a study with a questionable conclusion and no clear control of the numerous variables that could affect what it is measuring (the rate of bone fractures).
So you say. Whether the study it referenced is correct or not its existence is worth noting. Again, letting people know about it isn't "anti-vegan".
Also, if you have no problem with vegans or vegetarians, what was this comment about?
It was about my speculation of what heaven may be like for me. That doesn't denigrate nor negate someone else's thoughts on what heaven might be.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Out of curiosity, why?
It comports with what the TaNaKh says we are to eat here on Earth. The TaNaKh clearly says that we are allowed to eat meat and proscribes in detail guidelines for doing so. It is reasonable to assume that Earth is a prelude to heaven. So it follows that we may well eat meat in heaven too.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Only 30% of the worlds population can have dairy.
I question that fact. Humans are mammals. One of the distinguishing characteristics of mammals is feeding their off spring through lactation. I seriously doubt that 30% of human babies could not be nursed.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I question that fact. Humans are mammals. One of the distinguishing characteristics of mammals is feeding their off spring through lactation. I seriously doubt that 30% of human babies could not be nursed.
68% of humans have a degree of lactose intolerance. Also, we do not give babies cow's milk.

 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
68% of humans have a degree of lactose intolerance. Also, we do not give babies cow's milk.

I see that I was quite correct to question this. First off, 68% of humans have lactose malabsorption, not lactose intolerance. And, no, lactose malabsorption is not a degree of lactose intolerance. They are different things. Secondly sometimes processed cow's milk is given to infants. Third, not all dairy contains lactose. So your original statement was factually incorrect.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I see that I was quite correct to question this. First off, 68% of humans have lactose malabsorption, not lactose intolerance. And, no, lactose malabsorption is not a degree of lactose intolerance. They are different things. Secondly sometimes processed cow's milk is given to infants. Third, not all dairy contains lactose. So your original statement was factually incorrect.
You're right. I should have said malabsorption instead of intolerance. Still, this doesn't change the fact that 68% of the population is affected.

Doesn't the fact that well over half the population has issues absorbing lactose indicate to you that the human body probably isn't intended to consume dairy products?

As a rule, it's inadvisable to give an infant cow's milk, regardless of whether or not it happens "sometimes."
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You're right. I should have said malabsorption instead of intolerance. Still, this doesn't change the fact that 68% of the population is affected.

Doesn't the fact that well over half the population has issues absorbing lactose indicate to you that the human body probably isn't intended to consume dairy products?

As a rule, it's inadvisable to give an infant cow's milk, regardless of whether or not it happens "sometimes."
No I don't think that follows. What follows would be that people should give proper consideration to how they eat dairy (which again doesn't equate to containing lactose) and how much. For example a dairy food that contains little lactose, such as butter, should be generally fine for even the lactose intolerant. However that obviously doesn't mean eating it by the spoonful since that would be unwise given its high fat content and other reasons. But there are healthy and unhealthy ways of eating most foods, including fruits and vegetables. If someone wants to exclude dairy from their diet that is their business. More power to them. Live and let live. But that is a two way street.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
It comports with what the TaNaKh says we are to eat here on Earth. The TaNaKh clearly says that we are allowed to eat meat and proscribes in detail guidelines for doing so. It is reasonable to assume that Earth is a prelude to heaven. So it follows that we may well eat meat in heaven too.

Thanks for the clarification! I read that as "a place without vegans and vegetarians would be paradise."
 
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