Vatican Blasts Trans Surgery, Surogacy, Etc

[Estro Felino]

Jesus might not have been about sex. The history of Christianity would suggest there is most definitely a pre-occupation with sex in Christianity.

Of course.
Saint Paul and Saint Augustine played a role in all that.

But let's face the truth... the saeculum obscurum, that is the X century AD has been defined the century of pornocracy in the Vatican...
not to mention that nowadays...these are the articles we read on RomaToday:
Orgies, parties, dark rooms: the nights of Roman gay priests.

"Orge, festini, dark room". Le notti dei preti omosessuali romani (PODCAST)

Durante il suo pontificato Papa Ratzinger vietò il seminario a “coloro che hanno tendenze omosessuali profondamente radicate”. Ma i sacerdoti che chattano su Grindr e frequentano club e discoteche gay sono ancora parecchi: "Da noi vengono anche vescovi e cardinali. Il celibato? Andrebbe reso...

www.romatoday.it

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The RCC still performs exorcisms.

And that relates how?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The question might be, how much authority does the Pope have over Catholics? Roman Catholics, that is.

That is a different topic.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No.

Yes.

Yes.


Do you think that only the infliction of concrete physical injuries qualify as torture?

I use the standard understanding of torture:
tor·ture
/ˈtôrCHər/
noun
the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something.

If you are making up some other definition of torture, then it is impossible for us to talk, sense that would not be English.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thats what Hell is. A threat. Do it our way or be punished amd tortured forever without end.

Sorry, but the threat of hell is not the infliction of pain and suffering. It is an abstraction that, quite frankly, most people tend to tune out.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Of course.
Saint Paul and Saint Augustine played a role in all that.

But let's face the truth... the saeculum obscurum, that is the X century AD has been defined the century of pornocracy in the Vatican...
not to mention that nowadays...these are the articles we read on RomaToday:
Orgies, parties, dark rooms: the nights of Roman gay priests.

"Orge, festini, dark room". Le notti dei preti omosessuali romani (PODCAST)

Durante il suo pontificato Papa Ratzinger vietò il seminario a “coloro che hanno tendenze omosessuali profondamente radicate”. Ma i sacerdoti che chattano su Grindr e frequentano club e discoteche gay sono ancora parecchi: "Da noi vengono anche vescovi e cardinali. Il celibato? Andrebbe reso...

www.romatoday.it

It's ever been thus. Alexander VI, for example. That has never stopped the church trying to control sex.

 

[danieldemol]

The jury is infact still out on this.

Says who?

 

[Heyo]

And that relates how?

Some actions done by exorcists would be considered torture, by your definition and by the UN.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's ever been thus. Alexander VI, for example. That has never stopped the church trying to control sex.

Pope Orgia...
I mean Borgia.
Yes.

 

[Brian2]

That is just your religious and politically based opinion. As opposed to the consensus of all the relevant disciplined of medical professionals.

I have never professionally studied the making of a city's electrical grid. I have the right to have an opinion, but one would have to be an idiot to take my opinion on how best to go about supplying electricity to a city over that of a consensus civil or electrical engineer. I would have to be an idiot to take my opinion on how best to go about supplying electricity to a city over that of a consensus civil or electrical engineer.

Your opinion on issues of physical and psychological medicines appears to be just as ill founded and unlearned as my opinion on the placement of substations.

The state of your claimed consensus is not what you say and probably never was.

Increasing Number Of European Nations Adopt A More Cautious Approach To Gender-Affirming Care Among Minors

For several years, Europe has been moving in a different direction from the U.S., as Europeans exercise greater restraint when treating children with gender dysphoria.

www.forbes.com

Ban on children’s puberty blockers to be enforced in private sector in England

CQC will check new guidance in Cass report is applied by private care providers to avoid ‘two-tier’ access to drugs

www.theguardian.com

 

[Brian2]

In some cases tragedies have occurred when surgeries have altered a person's sexual identity.

True that has happened.

 

[Brian2]

Surgery doesn't change a person's identity according to my understanding, it only changes their sex organs to match their identity.

And more tragedies have occurred due to not undergoing reassignment surgery, so if your goal is to minimise tragedy then reassignment surgery is good news.

Surgery and hormones are cosmetic treatments and the people who have them do not receive organs that match what they identify as, even if they may appear more male or female.
I don't think it can be said that any tragedies in people who have not undergone reassignment surgery are due to their not having that surgery.
It would be due to the way they feel about themselves and care of these people in that area, how they manage the way they feel about themselves, is now being seen in more European countries as the best first approach instead of advocating hormone blockers and/or surgery, especially for minors.

 

[Brian2]

Is that because you don't think the brain is a fit study for science? Or don't you think the brain has anything to do with the self?

Neither of those.

 

[Brian2]

Are you certain about that last point? Can you point to anything that affirms it? I saw one study, but it was considered flawed due to lack of any followup.

I'm not sure how a study can be seen as flawed dut to lack of follow up. Certainly a future follow up would add to the study however.
Some pubescent people are confused about whether they are male or female, or think that they are not the gender that their biology suggests and if left to their own devices most of them become unconfused and realise that they actually are what their biology tells them. Some of that group just end up seeing that they are homosexual.

Do children grow out of gender dysphoria? - Transgender Trend

Desistance studies in children with Gender Dysphoria Eleven studies have been conducted looking at whether gender dysphoria persists throughout childhood. On average 80% of children change their minds and do not continue into adulthood as transgender. Some of these studies are very old, the...

www.transgendertrend.com

 

[Rival]

Says who?

I find it odd that people come into these discussions having read none of the sources.

This is not tried and tested medicine, it's still very young.

Here is the conclusion from a study:

There is a need for continued research on suicidality outcomes following gender-affirming treatment. Future research that incorporates multiple measures of suicidality and adequately controls for the presence of psychiatric comorbidity, substance use, and other suicide risk-enhancing factors is needed to strengthen the validity and increase the robustness of the results. There may be implications for the informed consent process of gender-affirming treatment given the current lack of methodological robustness of the literature reviewed.

Suicide-Related Outcomes Following Gender-Affirming Treatment: A Review

Gender-affirming treatment remains a topic of controversy; of particular concern is whether gender-affirming treatment reduces suicidality. A narrative review was undertaken evaluating suicide-related outcomes following gender-affirming surgery, hormones, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[ppp]

That is just your religious and politically based opinion. As opposed to the consensus of all the relevant disciplined of medical professionals

The state of your claimed consensus is not what you say and probably never was.

Increasing Number Of European Nations Adopt A More Cautious Approach To Gender-Affirming Care Among Minors

For several years, Europe has been moving in a different direction from the U.S., as Europeans exercise greater restraint when treating children with gender dysphoria.

www.forbes.com

Ban on children’s puberty blockers to be enforced in private sector in England

CQC will check new guidance in Cass report is applied by private care providers to avoid ‘two-tier’ access to drugs

www.theguardian.com

You are attempting to cite the news coverage of the political and religious movement of which you are a member. You seem to be allergic to primary scientific literature. Do you even know what primary scientific literature is?

 

[ppp]

I use the standard understanding of torture:
tor·ture
/ˈtôrCHər/
noun
the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something.

If you are making up some other definition of torture, then it is impossible for us to talk, sense that would not be English.

I asked, Do you think that only the infliction of concrete physical injuries qualify as torture? Since you cannot or will not answer, I will. Both the infliction of physical and emotional pain qualify as torture. One does not have to hit one's spouse or one's children in order to abuse them.

 

[Brian2]

You are attempting to cite the news coverage of the political and religious movement of which you are a member. You seem to be allergic to primary scientific literature. Do you even know what primary scientific literature is?

No.

 

[metis]

Which leads me to a question -- about the first Pope -- was he elected?

No, Jesus appointed Peter. Modern popes are chosen by cardinals.

The title "pope" wasn't used until a few centuries later, but the Church always appears to have a leader. Here: Pope - Wikipedia

 

[metis]

You have to go way back in history to find the last time the Pope threatened violence. Try addressing how the CC is TODAY.

Threatening people with torture for non-compliance is violence.

Thats what Hell is. A threat. Do it our way or be punished amd tortured forever without end.

A pope does not have that ability to judge.