Various religious views on evolution

[exchemist]

Do evolutionists consider radiation and light rays as part of the process of evolution? It may be so that radiation can affect transference of genetics, but never heard that so far. But anyway, yes, as usual, there are to my mind some weird things explained by religion and/or 'scientists.' But thanks for offering.

I'm referring to the entire process, not just the evolution of the organisms themselves, because @Clara Tea has chosen to talk about magma. As this is an inorganic starting material, providing only an original source for some of the chemical components required, to talk of how one gets from there all the way to dogs, one has to go into the whole process of the physics and chemistry involved, not merely the genetic change part.

Much of the animal kingdom, including the ancestors of dogs, relied, and relies, on energy obtained from sunlight by the plant kingdom. Dogs eat meat, and the meat they eat is the meat of herbivores, which eat plants, which obtain energy from radiation from the sun. Without sunlight, there could not have been any plants - and therefore nothing for the animal ancestors of dogs to eat.

 

[firedragon]

I'm not offended. We could go down rabbit holes with these words and never come out!
I have long since understood that the word can mean duty in Hinduism (not as part of any atheist agenda) so the link I provided was literally the first one listed.

As to the meanings of dhamma/dharma and kamma/karma within Buddhism, I'm not even going to go there!

Cheers.

Why not? Go there. No problem. I like it.

Kammassakaa Bhikkave saththaa kamma dhaayaadha Kammayoni Kammabandhu kammapatisaranaayang kammang karonthi kalyaanang vaa paapakang va thassa dhaayaadha bavanthi.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I mean what motivates you, not necessarily an outside spirit or another 'person.' but you.

I do not believe in existence of soul. That is why I reject 'spirit'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I mean--where or what are your guidelines as to what you consider as righteous?

I should fulfill my responsibilities (towards the family, society, nation, and the whole world), and I should engage in righteous action. Now what is righteous action, it is:

"Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam": To help others is merit, to pain others is sin.
As simple as that.

 

[Secret Chief]

Why not? Go there. No problem. I like it.

Kammassakaa Bhikkave saththaa kamma dhaayaadha Kammayoni Kammabandhu kammapatisaranaayang kammang karonthi kalyaanang vaa paapakang va thassa dhaayaadha bavanthi.

Well, you're mad then.
First up, I'm strictly monolingual!
Anyhoo....my understanding in regard to Buddhist use:

Dharma means natural law or order of the cosmos. When this is considered as the specific teaching of the Buddha it is called The Dharma. Hence "The Three Jewels" of Buddhism are said to be The Buddha, The Dharma and The Sangha (a/the Buddhist community). Confusingly, when the word is used within some Buddhist philosophy it means phenomenon (as in "all dharmas are empty of inherent selfhood").

Kamma/karma means volitional action.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Brother. What does Abidhamma mean? Deep duties? Really?

'Abhi' and 'Vi' are used in Sanskrit and Pali to emphasize. Like Dhamma and Abhidhamma and Pashyan and Vipashyan (Vipassana). It is like 'The Dharma' and 'The seeing' in English.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Are you saying Dharma is equivalent to Karthavya? Are you serious, Aup?

Yeah, very serious. You missed one thing that I wrote. "Kartavya' is more individualistic than Dharma."

 

[firedragon]

Well, you're mad then.
First up, I'm strictly monolingual!
Anyhoo....my understanding in regard to Buddhist use:

Dharma means natural law or order of the cosmos. When this is considered as the specific teaching of the Buddha it is called The Dharma. Hence "The Three Jewels" of Buddhism are said to be The Buddha, The Dharma and The Sangha (a/the Buddhist community). Confusingly, when the word is used within some Buddhist philosophy it means phenomenon (as in "all dharmas are empty of inherent selfhood").

Kamma/karma means volitional action.

It's true. But let me exchange with you brother. (If you are a sister, you can curse me and I will get a leg ache).

In Pali, there is no "The". So when people say "The Dharma" in English, it doesn't mean anything in Pali. Unless someone says "The one and only Dharma" or something which can be written in Pali as "Ekadhamma".

Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha are the Poojya or the one's to be paid homage to (not really worship). That's why the Sangha or the priests are called poojya paksa or the "set of people to be paid homage to". Should I shorten it to "Homage Party"? Party as in a group of people like a political party. That's exactly what paksa means.

Mind you, there is no concept of the thiruwan or three jewels in Buddhist scripture. The Tipitaka. But I have no expertise in Zen Buddhism and it's entailing scripture so maybe you can enlighten me on that. Maybe I can upon guidance purchase the specific book on it. I can tell you that the Tipitaka does not contain it.

The meaning of Dhamma is pretty distorted in English. Not intentionally, but by providence. Dhamma can mean many things, but there is a base meaning. Pali is a very concise language. Very very concise. For example "Ma me" in Pali will mean "things that I have with me". What happens is you can never translate it to English so concisely and one will have to try and translate it as concisely as possible. Thus, ending up writing volumes and volumes, or end up distorting it. Dhamma in a sentence like "Ma Dhamma" is "My philosophy" or "My way". It's like saying "This is my way of doing things". But when it is used in isolation, it will mean act, philosophy, path, way. The sentence will put that into action. Kusalesu Dhammesu means "The path of action of doing good things". So this "path of action" will have to be shortened to "path" only, and doing good things will have to be shortened to "good" and make a sentence like "good path". It's an alright translation, but not quite right as well.

This is why I have heard a lot of people saying "hatred is not stopped by hatred. Hatred is only stopped by love". That's so wrong it's mind boggling. It is just alright. Not quite right, to put it diplomatically.

It's avairaya in Sanskrit or averen in Pali. That means "no hatred". In Buddhism, "no hatred" does not mean "love". It's simple. no hatred. Thus, translating it as "love" giving it a Christian/western twist to it actually loses the essence of what it says. In Madhyama Prathipadha the detachment from belonging to this or that is THE teaching. Thus, if you don't have hatred, "no hatred" will put a stop to hatred. Averenma vera, with no hatred only, hatred could be stopped.

That is why, Dhamma is not just saying "duty". Read Abhidhamma Pitaka and Vinaya Pitaka and just look at the difference. The usage of Dhamma is very different. Just try it and tell me what you think.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

'Abhi' and 'Vi' are used in Sanskrit and Pali to emphasize. Like Dhamma and Abhidhamma and Pashyan and Vipashyan (Vipassana). It is like 'The Dharma' and 'The seeing' in English.

Abhi means deep Aup. Deep. It's not just an emphasis like "su". Abhiloka means deeper world. But I must agree with you that it is emphasis, but a little more. Lets say you like something. Like Ruchi. When you put Abhi there, it is a deeper liking. A longing. A craving. Not just "I like sweets". It's more like "I crave sweets".

And about Dhamma and "The Dhamma", please Aup. don't murder the language by doing quick google searches. This is torture.



I'm just kidding brother. Abhi does not mean "The". Looool. Sorry I just cant help but chuckle. Abhi means the deeper philosophy. Or may I add, the "sophisticated consideration of the philosophy"? That's exactly what it means. Not that lame "The". I don't know but if you can find a shorter word in English for "sophisticated thinking/consideration" you can replace that with it, and make it shorter. But as many do, trying to shorten it, don't kill it.

Hokkay??

 

[firedragon]

Yeah, very serious. You missed one thing that I wrote. "Kartavya' is more individualistic than Dharma."

Individualistic? Hmm. How could it be individualistic? Maybe you have something there to share but you are not articulating it properly.

Kathavya can be applied to many people or a whole nation if needed. It's not individualistic by nature. It's just a different meaning. Or maybe you have some other thing in mind. So please do share it.

 

[firedragon]

@Secret Chief

Something you said caught my eye. You said "Sangha" means "the Buddhist community".

May I ask you who told you this? Sorry I'm just asking because I just need to know for my information.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Abhi means deep Aup. Deep.

Don't murder my post. I said 'Abhi' and 'Vi' are used to emphasize in Sanskrit. It certainly does not mean deep. They cannot be used independently but only in conjunction with other words.

.. but you are not articulating it properly.

It is a qualitative difference. 'Kartavya' is used more in relation to an individual, where as 'dharma' is for all. I feel it that way. Perhaps a Sanskrit scholar would be able to articulate it better.

 

[Secret Chief]

@Secret Chief

Something you said caught my eye. You said "Sangha" means "the Buddhist community".

May I ask you who told you this? Sorry I'm just asking because I just need to know for my information.

No one in particular, it's just standard!

eg

"The sangha is the Buddhist community. Traditionally it referred to the community of ordained monks and nuns, but today sangha includes all Buddhist practitioners, lay and ordained."

- What are the three jewels?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Literally Sangha means a group.

 

[Secret Chief]

It's true. But let me exchange with you brother. (If you are a sister, you can curse me and I will get a leg ache).

In Pali, there is no "The". So when people say "The Dharma" in English, it doesn't mean anything in Pali. Unless someone says "The one and only Dharma" or something which can be written in Pali as "Ekadhamma".

Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha are the Poojya or the one's to be paid homage to (not really worship). That's why the Sangha or the priests are called poojya paksa or the "set of people to be paid homage to". Should I shorten it to "Homage Party"? Party as in a group of people like a political party. That's exactly what paksa means.

Mind you, there is no concept of the thiruwan or three jewels in Buddhist scripture. The Tipitaka. But I have no expertise in Zen Buddhism and it's entailing scripture so maybe you can enlighten me on that. Maybe I can upon guidance purchase the specific book on it. I can tell you that the Tipitaka does not contain it.

The meaning of Dhamma is pretty distorted in English. Not intentionally, but by providence. Dhamma can mean many things, but there is a base meaning. Pali is a very concise language. Very very concise. For example "Ma me" in Pali will mean "things that I have with me". What happens is you can never translate it to English so concisely and one will have to try and translate it as concisely as possible. Thus, ending up writing volumes and volumes, or end up distorting it. Dhamma in a sentence like "Ma Dhamma" is "My philosophy" or "My way". It's like saying "This is my way of doing things". But when it is used in isolation, it will mean act, philosophy, path, way. The sentence will put that into action. Kusalesu Dhammesu means "The path of action of doing good things". So this "path of action" will have to be shortened to "path" only, and doing good things will have to be shortened to "good" and make a sentence like "good path". It's an alright translation, but not quite right as well.

This is why I have heard a lot of people saying "hatred is not stopped by hatred. Hatred is only stopped by love". That's so wrong it's mind boggling. It is just alright. Not quite right, to put it diplomatically.

It's avairaya in Sanskrit or averen in Pali. That means "no hatred". In Buddhism, "no hatred" does not mean "love". It's simple. no hatred. Thus, translating it as "love" giving it a Christian/western twist to it actually loses the essence of what it says. In Madhyama Prathipadha the detachment from belonging to this or that is THE teaching. Thus, if you don't have hatred, "no hatred" will put a stop to hatred. Averenma vera, with no hatred only, hatred could be stopped.

That is why, Dhamma is not just saying "duty". Read Abhidhamma Pitaka and Vinaya Pitaka and just look at the difference. The usage of Dhamma is very different. Just try it and tell me what you think.

Cheers.

The meanings I posted are very much the commonly accepted ones, whether or not one thinks they are accurate. I'm not so linguistically inclined as yourself to be deconstructing it.
As to zen, for something not reliant on words there's a lot of sutras out there! But of course one would be reliant upon the translation from the original language (likely Chinese or Japanese).

 

[firedragon]

Don't murder my post. I said 'Abhi' and 'Vi' are used to emphasize in Sanskrit. It certainly does not mean deep.

Yeah. We were discussing Buddhism and Pali. In Sanskrit it is Abhi but a little mulled down. But pretty much the same when applied to Abhidharma. Same same. It means "deep". That's the root for Abhah as in when referring to deep sea.

It's "A" and "Murthaja Bha". Not sangngaka "Ba". Murdhanya Ghosha.

Does not mean "The".

 

[firedragon]

The meanings I posted are very much the commonly accepted ones, whether or not one thinks they are accurate. I'm not so linguistically inclined as yourself to be deconstructing it.
As to zen, for something not reliant on words there's a lot of sutras out there! But of course one would be reliant upon the translation from the original language (likely Chinese or Japanese).

What sutra?

 

[firedragon]

No one in particular, it's just standard!

eg

"The sangha is the Buddhist community. Traditionally it referred to the community of ordained monks and nuns, but today sangha includes all Buddhist practitioners, lay and ordained."

- What are the three jewels?

Hmm. Very different in Theravada Buddhism I must say. But you said things changed through time and you are referring to todays meaning. Okay thanks for that clarification. Understood.

 

[firedragon]

It is a qualitative difference. 'Kartavya' is used more in relation to an individual, where as 'dharma' is for all.

Dharma is a "used word" to refer to doctrine. So you are making that difference. But it can any day, any time, in any world be used for and by any individual.

Tell me. What does "Kusala Dharma" mean?

 

[Viker]

Since your religion is stated as "In Diabolica," what religion does that mean?

It's a temporary suit to fit current beliefs I hold. I could just leave it at diabolism. I'm still rooted heavily in (theistic) Satanism, Luciferianism and still smitten with neo-paganism. So, I feel a need to sort and separate all of that out to give it a temporary label. I like it so I may keep it around a while longer.