Up to 10million per year could die from this

[Altfish]

That is easy to say in spite of evidence... empirical and verifiable...

'Truly a miracle': Child who was thrown off 3rd level at MOA recovering

I prefer not to exemplify a flat-earth mentality after evidence is so contrary to a statement.

And my statements about a non-operable tumor and a stage four cancer was "not from a book".

Which reminds me... what quote did I use from a book? Or was that a false statement?

Don’t Use “Miracle” to Describe the Boy Who Survived a Mall of America Attack

It is like winning a lottery; if you throw a 1000 children (I'm not recommending this by the way) off the same balcony, one or two will survive uninjured. It is statistics.
The same with the lottery; your chance of winning it is (say) a million to one. BUT every week someone wins the lottery.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Inoperable brain tumor with a 4 month lease on life. Stage four cancer with a three month lease on life. And others...

And you think that faith cured someone's inoperable brain tumour? How?
What about the people with inoperable brain tumours who had faith and still died? Where do those statistics fit into this?

 

[Twilight Hue]

And if "she" were, I imagine you'd dismiss any attempt to do anything about it as some evil librul plot.

Naw. Just addressing the obsession with living forever.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

eventually... but we do see where faith changed things that doctors couldn't

There is no evidence to suggest that "faith" can do anything, ever. Try praying over a severed limb and see if it grows back.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Fascinating information. Sad, though.

 

[Kenny]

Don’t Use “Miracle” to Describe the Boy Who Survived a Mall of America Attack

It is like winning a lottery; if you throw a 1000 children (I'm not recommending this by the way) off the same balcony, one or two will survive uninjured. It is statistics.
The same with the lottery; your chance of winning it is (say) a million to one. BUT every week someone wins the lottery.

And every week someone is healed of cancer thanks to doctors... but I wouldn't call in a lottery.

I prefer what the doctor said... "It is a miracle" but feel free not to agree, after all, you are a free will spiritual agent so it is your privilege.

 

[Kenny]

And you think that faith cured someone's inoperable brain tumour? How?
What about the people with inoperable brain tumours who had faith and still died? Where do those statistics fit into this?

How many people are treated with chemotherapy and die... so that means chemotherapy doesn't work?

 

[Kenny]

There is no evidence to suggest that "faith" can do anything, ever.

That will certainly be true for you for it is according to your faith. However, after we have had multiple cases in our own church (not to mention so many others), we have enough evidence.

But, hey, if you don't want one, you certainly can live without one

 

[Rational Agnostic]

That will certainly be true for you for it is according to your faith. However, after we have had multiple cases in our own church (not to mention so many others), we have enough evidence.

But, hey, if you don't want one, you certainly can live without one

Wait, you had amputees grow back limbs in your church? LOL, Send me a video of it next time it happens.

 

[Kenny]

Wait, you had amputees grow back limbs in your church? LOL, Send me a video of it next time it happens.

OK... LOL... I corrected the post for your personal benefit.

 

[Woberts]

OK... LOL... I corrected the post for your personal benefit.

No, you didn't. Excellent formatting, good ser.

 

[Kenny]

No, you didn't. Excellent formatting, good ser.

Oh... but I did! I just removed his fallacy, is all.

 

[SkepticThinker]

How many people are treated with chemotherapy and die... so that means chemotherapy doesn't work?

Perhaps you could answer my questions. How does faith cure a medical issue? How can we test if faith is indeed what cured the medical condition? What is a miracle and how do we know when one has occurred? What do you even mean when you say "faith?"

We know the reasoning and the science behind chemotherapy being used to treat some forms of cancers. We know the survival rate is not 100%, depending on a multitude of factors. We don't simply ignore the people who ended up dying from cancer, as you apparently do with people whose faith beliefs were not answered. We have no information whatsoever about miracle claims, other than the claim itself.

 

[Kenny]

We know the reasoning and the science behind chemotherapy being used to treat some forms of cancers. We know the survival rate is not 100%, depending on a multitude of factors. We don't simply ignore the people who ended up dying from cancer, as you apparently do with people whose faith beliefs were not answered.

I am at a loss at the statement that I ignore people whose faith beliefs were not answered. Where did I say that? Why do you say that?

We have no information whatsoever about miracle claims, other than the claim itself.

Not true. We know that chemo works because people are healed (albeit not always). We know that faith works because people are healed (albeit not always). Why is it different?

Perhaps you could answer my questions. How does faith cure a medical issue?

Think of it this way. Mind can be stronger than the physical. Many times the very will to live can push normal physical capacity beyond its ability. Maybe you have heard "Now it is up to him and his will to live" - the will, or mind, alters the capacity of the body.

Likewise, the spirit is stronger than both mind and physical. It has the capacity to change the natural course of sickness.

How can we test if faith is indeed what cured the medical condition?

Through empirical evidence. We prayed after the declaration that the woman was going to die in 6 month (or there about -- it's been a while so the exact month count may be off by a month) because of the inoperable tumor and then, after prayer, it shrunk and disappeared and the doctors had no medical explanation.

We prayer for another woman with stage four cancer, and a month later they said "We don't understand it, but it is completely gone". And the list goes on and on.

What is a miracle and how do we know when one has occurred?

A miracle from God, as defined by Christians, is when the natural course of nature is violated. Adrenaline for momentary strength is not a miracle. It is the natural course of nature.

Smith Wigglesworth going to a wake, grabbing a dead person and putting him up on a wall and shouting, "Arise and live" - and on the third time his eyes open and he lives, is called a miracle.

My friend who had a third failure in bridging her broken spinal cord and the doctors said "Don't lift anything over 5lbs, don't have babies, don't do any physical work" and after going to a service, went to her hotel room, fell to the floor crying out to God when she realized all pain was gone and John Hopkins Hospital says, "We have no idea what happened, its a miracle, you spinal cord is completely normal" and two babies later she still is normal and pushes a lawn mower, violates nature and would be classified as a miracle.

What do you even mean when you say "faith?"

I would assume that there are many definitions to try to let the hearer understand. One that I like is:

Hebrews 11:1 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

 

[ChristineM]

Maybe faith will ultimately be the one thing that will work?

Never worked before, cant see it working in the future.

 

[ChristineM]

How many people are treated with chemotherapy and die... so that means chemotherapy doesn't work?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Dawkins, R - The God Delusion
"Any belief in miracles is flat contradictory not just to the facts of science but to the spirit of science"

Yet a quote for the 'Spirit' of science.

Thus we can also have faith in the 'Spirit' of healing.

Regards Tony

 

[Kenny]

Never worked before, cant see it working in the future.

 

[ChristineM]

Evidence?

 

[Kenny]

Evidence?

read the above posts... no need to do it again.