Two approaches towards reforming Islam: the Bahai Faith and Ahmadiyya Islam.

[Vinayaka]

Ah, Allah does not send the messengers, Bahaullah does.

In the other thread, it was clear that Bahalu'lah was a time traveler, as he also created Krishna, etc. Out of curiousity, do you ever even hear of Baha'i in Delhi? If so, how much?

 

[Aupmanyav]

There may be a few. Bahais would say 40 million. They created a architecturally good temple at a great cost and the anti-Hindu Congress gave them the land for free.

 

[LuisDantas]

How come Allah sent a manifestation (Bahaullah,1817 – 1892) and a Mahdi (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, 1835 – 1908), so close to each other in time?

The obvious answer (for this non-Bahai, non-Muslim) is clearly that both groups acted independently, reacting to a mix of shared and divergent circunstances.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Now, I think that creates a problem for Allah's people - whom to follow? Should they follow the older one - Bahaullah, or the younger one - Mirza Ghaulam Ahmad, the manifestation or the mahdi? Did Bahaullah clarify the situation? I suppose both the Mirzas must have heard of each other. Allah too seems to be intent on creating confusion.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Unfortunately the quest for equality has really spoiled the natural design God has intended for the family. In all 3 abrahamic faiths there is such a large body of evidence to show that women should be subservient to their husbands. In our era, this inequality has been erroneously interpreted as disrespectful and abusive. Each and every relationship has an underlying need for inequality that is not interpreted as the absence of value for the inferior party. For example, I as a student am inferior to my teacher, even if she's a female. In the realm of that paradigm I am inferior, but this bears no weight on my internal value as an individual. I as a citizen am inferior to the police. I as a son am inferior to my mother and so on. All of these are easily understood but the moment I suggest that my wife is inferior to me, images of a barbaric abusive chauvinist come to mind. We have all been trained to view gender inequality as deriving from this stereotypical woman hating abusive, keep women in the kitchen male pig. I have asked so many women, I challenge you to think back on all the men you have ever known and truly count how many man you know that have espoused the idea that women are vile and worthless. The truth is that very few men think like this, this idea was made up much like the bogey man to trick women into leaving their designated post in the family.

I'm trying very hard not to be snotty here. The Biblical model seems to assume that the "superior" men are not abusive, and beating their wives. In my own experience, the men try to rule, but can't get it all together, so the wife is often the one picking up the pieces and holding it all together. Perhaps in Heaven ???

I would delightedly give myself over to a man who is loving and kind, ruling when needed. AND, there are so many things in a household that men don't have the capacity for. Pushing a child out, Breast feeding, and so much more. The Bible said Eve was a helpmate, not like "quarry-slaves" driven to the grave. (Thanatopsis). Too many men want to come home whining, and drunk to beat their wives and children. For me, the next one will need a bullet proof vest.

 

[LuisDantas]

Now, I think that creates a problem for Allah's people - whom to follow? Should they follow the older one - Bahaullah, or the younger one - Mirza Ghaulam Ahmad, the manifestation or the mahdi? Did Bahaullah clarify the situation? I suppose both the Mirzas must have heard of each other. Allah too seems to be intent on creating confusion.

That is only a significant problem once the two communities have frequent contact with each other, though; it is easy to decide that God did not mind until then.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How come Allah sent a manifestation (Bahaullah,1817 – 1892) and a Mahdi (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, 1835 – 1908), so close to each other in time?
Moreover, Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri Bahá'u'lláh gave the Title "King of the Messengers" (sultán al-rusul) to the Báb, and the "Sender of the Messengers" (mursil al-rusul) to himself. Khatam an-Nabiyyin - Wikipedia
Bahaullah's younger brother was Mirza Yahya, Subh-i-Azal, whom Bab appointed as the leader of his flock, but Bahaullah usurped the leadership.

Ah, Allah does not send the messengers, Bahaullah does.

If we look back at the list of claimants to be the Jewish Messiah there is only One (Jesus of Nazareth) who has distinguished Himself and stood the test of time.

List of messiah claimants - Wikipedia

The list of Mahdi claimants is finite and if it be true and He has come the two movements listed in the OP appear to be the two most significant contenders. Time will tell.

List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia

I don’t know where you are getting your information from in regards the Mirza Yahya?
The link you provided has little relevance to the information provided which looks as if it’s been lifted from some anti-Baha’i website. The whole purpose of the Bab’s Revelation was to prepare His followers for ‘Him whom God shall make manifest’.

He whom God shall make manifest - Wikipedia

Most of the Babis went on to recognise Bahá’u’lláh as the rightful fulfilment though His younger half brother Mirza Yahya tried to lay claim as well and even tried to kill Bahá’u’lláh.

 

[Marcion]

Clearly we can't cure homosexuality if its no longer defined as a medical condition and we don't properly understand its genesis.

Nor can we cure heterosexuality. People will have to learn to live with it.

 

[Dawnofhope]

In the other thread, it was clear that Bahalu'lah was a time traveler, as he also created Krishna, etc. Out of curiousity, do you ever even hear of Baha'i in Delhi? If so, how much?

I’ve never heard any Baha’i make such a preposterous claim. It is God who has existed through all eternity and Manifested or Incarnated Himself through Krishna.

 

[oldbadger]

Nor can we cure heterosexuality. People will have to learn to live with it.

Bahais speaking of homosexuality as if it is a kind of illness should tell the modern World all that it needs to know.....

 

[siti]

Nor can we cure heterosexuality.

No - you just have to let it run its course - the symptoms will abate gradually over time.

 

[siti]

I’ve never heard any Baha’i make such a preposterous claim.

Really? I thought preposterous claims were a bit of a speciality?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Really? I thought preposterous claims were a bit of a speciality?

If you don’t believe in prophets, sure. Christ after all was seen a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks.
1 Corinthians 1:23

The Mahdi claim is clear enough, clear as any prophetic fulfilments going to be.

 

[Vinayaka]

I’ve never heard any Baha’i make such a preposterous claim. It is God who has existed through all eternity and Manifested or Incarnated Himself through Krishna.

Yes, it was one of your compatriots. (you can guess who.) He said that everything had been manifested by and through Baha'u'llah. I could go and find it but it would take me 3 months or so. Why would you be surprised?

 

[Vinayaka]

There may be a few. Bahais would say 40 million. They created a nice temple at a great cost and the anti-Hindu Congress gave them the land for free.

The official Baha'i stats form Baha'i sources is 2 million. The Indian census, last 3 times, has been 5000, 7000, and 11 000 or thereabouts. about that discrepancy previously, it was suggested that the other 1 990 000 people would lie about it because of the fear of Hindu persecution. And then they wonder why we have our doubts about the whole thing. Here in Alberta, Canada, about 50 towns are listed as having a Baha'i presence, and each contact number is for the National Center of Canada, with the exception of the two larger centers. I should go over there (to the Baha'i Center) for a feast and see how many actually show up. Because of all this, I seriously doubt if there are a million Bahai's on the planet, let alone 7 million. It's totally exaggerated.

 

[Jim]

OTOH, I've never met a Bahai in person. They're scarce in these parts. So it's only the folks on here that represent their faith for me, and I must say it hasn't been very positive.

No..... not positive.

My experience with Baha’is on the Internet hasn’t been very positive either.

 

[Jim]

We all need good friends, of course, but good enemies can be far more valuable. Good friends will never tell us about our failures, drawbacks and negatives. But good enemies will, and it's from these offerings that we get the opportunities to recognise where we might need to change in various ways.

I’ve spent most of my time on the Internet with people whose ideas and interests seemed opposed to mine, and I’ve been very happy with what I’ve learned from that. It’s always been very enriching for me. Most recently, my discussions with some people in an atheist forum have helped me resolve some questions that have puzzled me for most of my life.

 

[Jim]

If not, I think it too shall pass. Another 50 years at most. Lots of once popular movements have died off. We simply can't stay living in the past and expect modern thinkers to come along. I do admire the Amish though.

I have Amish in my family history on my father’s side. I see a lot to admire in them too.

 

[Jim]

I may have been sort of Baha'I for a while and not understood? After getting burned and abused in Christianity, and Islam, and found the Jews too exclusivistic for my tolerance, I decided I couldn't figure it out and gave up on it all, except God. I've felt for a long time that the Christian Prophets were real, but that Jesus is just OH so much more than a Prophet. That Muslims take offense at Jesus being called Son of God, is a linguistic lack of understanding between Arabic and the rest of the worlds language and THAT, God put there. And Arabs don't put a lot of effort into understanding the world around them. They just expect the world to yield to them.

For the time being, I attend a Christian Church, but am mainly there to pray and the sacrament. Most of my spiritual world is uncertain and inscrutable, and I'm fine with that. There is scripture that supports folk like me, the most important to me being Micah 6:8

He has told you, O man, what is good;

and fwhat does the Lord require of you

but to do justice, and to love kindness,2

and to walk humbly with your God?

Man, unwilling to follow the Holy Spirit makes giant edifices of Doctrine that make following God a turmoil.

I want to join your religion. Where do I sign?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, it was one of your compatriots. (you can guess who.) He said that everything had been manifested by and through Baha'u'llah. I could go and find it but it would take me 3 months or so. Why would you be surprised?

Trying to find the post would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Baha’is believe Bahá’u’lláh was a man. Divinity may be relevant when God speaks through a manifestation in the same manner as the sun is reflected in the mirror. However the mirror is not the sun. Similarly the extent of divine attributes such as love and compassion that we all possess could be considered Godly.