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Featured Twin Jewsih Messiahs?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Anyone got info on the twin Messiahs , what happened tot hem why didn't the desciples accept them?

    Help accelerate the Messianic Era by unravelling the riddle of the Twin Messiahs – the Josephic and Davidic Messiahs according to the secret teachings of the Gaon of Vilna
     
  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Wish I knew!
     
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    The Josephic Messiah - City of Luz <-- Not certain, but this appears to be a man in Colorado, USA who has an opinion about it. He seems to think this is actually about a duel description of the universe...or two different messianic eras or something. Man that is complicated. He has a book for sale on it, but beware of people in Colorado who sell books. The ski resorts are expensive.

    Chaim feels that the two messiahs describe Jesus. They have a little blurb about it on their site. Their explanation is similarly complicated.
     
  4. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Because it's not true,There's only one Messiah. But Joseph is definitely a shadow of Jesus. And his brothers not recognizing him is symbolic of the Jews who don't recognize him today. The two brothers who Joseph kept in darkness were Judah and Benjamin. Who became the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and who are the Jews we know as Jews today, kept in darkness about the Messiah. And as the story goes, at the end Jesus will reveal himself to them and they will all be a big happy family.
     
  5. capumetu

    capumetu Member

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    A Messiah is a Hebrew word (Old Testament) that equates to Christ (Greek Word) both mean anointed. There are several individuals anointed by Jehovah for particular usages. Interestingly Cyrus who was anointed to liberate the Jews from Babylon was the only non-Jew recorded as being anointed by God.
     
  6. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Thomas "the twin" likely had a twin brother who wasn't Jesus. Other brothers of Jesus are identified as apostles and never called twins.

    There is nothing in the NT to suggest Jesus Christ had a twin. Mary and Joseph were both told Mary's first pregnancy was a Him to be called Jesus and not a them.
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I do not think Rider is asking about Jesus at all.
     
  8. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Messiah Ben Joseph is what I found and looking at different groups in the wiki Jewish groups that contributed to dead sea scrolls these Jews wa slisted as one group. This is one of the links.twin jewish messiah - Search results - Wikipedia
     
  9. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Wiki said there were different Jews recognizing different Messiahs so Jesus was not the only one. SO why choose Jesus?
     
  10. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Because OT prophecy says the Messiah would be crucified, and Jesus was crucified.
     
  11. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    There is no "OT" claim to crucifixion. The idea of two messianic figures in the future (the son of Joseph and the son of David) is reported in later rabbinic writings as a possible scenario. They are not twins, though, simply two different people performing two different functions.
     
  12. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "There's only one Messiah."

    So you are saying God, a being with unlimited power, is limited to only one Messiah?
     
  13. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Why would he need more than one?
     
  14. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 53:5
    The Suffering Servant
    …Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.…
     
  15. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    really? The "Suffering Servant"? That has been deflated time and time again -- the servant is EXPLICITLY equated with Israel repeatedly in Isaiah.
     
  16. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yeah of course it's subltly stated with room for misinterpretation, or parallel interpretation if you prefer, otherwise how would the prophecy that the Jews would not recognize Jesus be fullfilled?
     
  17. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    I was tempted.... really tempted.... to simply put a :facepalm: here, but instead let me lift the words from an almost seven year old post from my friend, Levite.

    "Yes, I think we are all familiar with the Christian reading of Isaiah. However, that reading is eisegetic. It's dandy if you're a Christian. But if you're not, it is meaningless.

    I have said before, and will say again: Jewish scripture-- all Jewish scripture-- was written by Jews, for Jews, in the Jewish language, for interpretation using Jewish methodologies.

    The fact that Christians came along, a thousand years after Isaiah wrote this material for Jews dealing with the Assyrian conquests and the rising threat of Babylonia, and read their own Christian theologies back into the text in order to make Jewish text try to support a profoundly un-Jewish set of ideas, carries no weight in Jewish scholarship.

    I can go back, read Shakespeare's Henry V, and decide that when he was speaking of England and France, he actually was talking about the US and Iraq in the twenty-first century, regardless of the fact that he is using language, events, and references specific to his own historical context. But that doesn't make what I say true, or mean that Shakespeare ever had any idea of what might transpire in the twenty-first century.

    The simple fact is that the original Hebrew of Isaiah in chapters 51 through 54 (since 53 cannot be read in isolation, being part of a continuous poetic narrative that provides context to the whole) is about all of Israel being redeemed by God's forgiveness, not about a specific messiah. The references to "my servant" are phrased in the poetic Hebrew as a generality. They describe any and all Jews faithful to God, not one specific person. All those torments the "servant" suffers are the indiginities of conquest and persecution all Israel was experiencing during Isaiah's time.

    You can read that chapter, as a non-Jew, from after three thousand years, and decide that Isaiah was talking about Jesus and Christianity. But that doesn't make it so, any more than Shakespeare was talking about Iraq."
     
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  18. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    He tells the story in more than one way. In the picture version, Joseph represents Jesus. His brothers put him in a pit, representing the grave, then Joseph gets out of the pit, Joseph is taken in by the Egyptians, representing Jesus being taken in by the Gentiles. Meanwhile while Joseph is taken in by the Gentiles, his brothers don't recognize him. As we can see is clear to this day.
     
  19. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    How is it that an all-powerful being needed the one?
     
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Messiah Yeshua son of Joseph, and Son of the Most High, sent to fulfill laying a line of righteousness across Israel, and the whole world; to bring in the lost sheep of Israel, to divorce Judah, and to act as High priest removing that which defiles.

    Messiah 'David Elohim' from the line of David, is the king to bring in the lost sheep of Israel globally, Ezekiel 34:23, Jeremiah 23:5, Isaiah 55:3-4, Zechariah 12:8, Hosea 3:5 (whole chapters).

    Will have to read what Vilna Gaon wrote to give a specific analysis of his take on it, not that he has it right tho; as most Rabbinic Jews are blinded to understanding the text, as it states is part of the Miracle. :innocent:
     
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