Trump ; U.S. government recognizes Jerusalem as Capital of Israel

[MrMrdevincamus]

I live in the USA. We have been doing that for a long time. It's one of our strong suits.
At least, it used to be.
Tom

Tom, I have reread my comments and would like to say please don't get me wrong or mistake my constant state of agitation as anything personal directed towards you. I am both fearful and angry about the USA's hapless state of foreign affairs. Of course I am not so naive to think the western nations* have ever been lily white and as innocent as we thought and were sometimes portrayed via a then friendly world wide propaganda machine...er Media. But I too miss the good old days when an American could hitchhike around the world in relative safety and pay for it with a pound of weed, well that was according to the rolling stones magazine....all good things must end I suppose?

*(the G1 nations in western hemisphere)

; { >

 

[alisa01]

viral issue

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Ok lets do viral!

; {>

 

[gnomon]

How is this in the best interests of the United States?

How is it in the best interest of Israel and Palestine. That's the question.

And sorry that it took this dumbass POTUS to do it but personally ..........

I don't know.

I'll wait for Jay who knows far more about the politics in that area than I do.

Dear God in mid typing I suddenly realized I don't **** about a situation so...........

Anyone like "The Big Bang Theory".....****ing hate it.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Jayhoo?

: {>

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I am no expert on American politics, but I think people are surprised that Trump did something he promised and it gives the Israel haters a chance to rant.
As an Israeli and Jerusalemite(when I am there) I am pleased someone has the b*lls to recognise what is happening anyway.
The reality is that he's only moving the embassy and already the threats have started.

I think this was a stupid move on Trump's part considering the volatile environment and the sensitivities along with it. Trump ultimately does not care about Jews (he comes from a KKK background as his father was associated with KKK so I doubt his ideals are not too far behind his fathers), rather, he is appealing to his evangelical base.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

"President Trump on Wednesday will order the State Department to begin moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, senior administration officials said, a move that fulfills a campaign promise made to religious conservatives but one that could inflame tensions across the Middle East.: MORE;

Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, forge ahead with moving US Embassy

Or simply google the key words ~


This should of happened a long time ago. However our past president, the jello for a spine Obama was too busy grovelling to do the right thing. God is great, everything is falling into place as per bible prophesy and as per God's will.

; {>

As a United States citizen your viewpoint on this matter is dangerous considering the strides we've made to try and garner a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine. There is nothing more dangerous than an evangelical who is trying to bring about the end times.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It's amazing how Christians go to bat for Israel. The Israeli Jews who are observant of their faith don't even believe in your Jesus. They think you're Avodah Zarah and your faith is heretical.

 

[Jedster]

I think this was a stupid move on Trump's part considering the volatile environment and the sensitivities along with it. Trump ultimately does not care about Jews (he comes from a KKK background as his father was associated with KKK so I doubt his ideals are not too far behind his fathers), rather, he is appealing to his evangelical base.

You may be right. Most politicians in the world have their own agendas.
I know in the UK many far-rightists support Israel only because they hate the Muslims more than Jews after all there aren't many Jews left (less than 0.25% of world population). The far left still hate the Jews.

So Trump comes from a KKK background and yet his daughter marries a Jew and is religious. Go figure.
Neither have anything to do with the price of lemons.

What does it all mean?. I dunno. People make their own judgements according to their own criteria/prejudices.
All the hate politics against world leaders exists in every country and most of us form our opinions from the media.

___________________________________

If, in fact, the embassy does move to Jerusalem, then there is more of a chance than many other countries will do the same. because , { as someone said to me recently, "When the American president sneezes, everyone else gets a cold"}.
It will break the stagnant status quo. For better or worse, I don't know.
We've already seen the reaction by the Arab/Islamic world.
As I see it, until the Arab & most of the Islamic world reeducates it's children away from the hatred, nothing on the ground will change between people even if a 'peace' is forced.
Both Jordan & Egypt have peace treaties with Israel, yet that is only on the political front. (I'm not getting into giving links here).

I really don't require a response to this, because it is just the way I see things although I pretty much know what's coming (I am not referring to you btw)

And, as usual, I always regret posting on a ME thread.
( A personal note: In 1996 I changed my name by deed pole to an historical person who is well loved by Jews & Muslims (and other Abrahamics) because I really thought I could help make some peace in the area. It didn't help one bit and in fact made me more nationalistic both as an Israeli and as British.
I am glad I discovered Kabir.)

 

[Epic Beard Man]

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

As a United States citizen your viewpoint on this matter is dangerous considering the strides we've made to try and garner a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine. There is nothing more dangerous than an evangelical who is trying to bring about the end times.

You are wrong about what is worse, the truly bad and evil things are ignorance (from where your comments emerge) and bigotry. Trump said he will welcome any two state solutions! What part of that didn't you understand? Trump was only confirming what is already true and he had the balls to do it unlike the other weenies that came before him. Evangelical Christians know they can not influence destiny or prophesy. However, we can do the right thing by defending our poltical ally, (Israel) and for Christians Israel is our spiritual homeland. So no its not Evangelical Christians that are dangerous so far its been terminally naive people that believe Arab propaganda which includes revisionist history, and downright evildoers that support Israels destruction. Evildoers like the Islamic terrorists who slaughter anyone that does not agree with their idea of what color you should poop. Sorry I disagree with your opinion, to say the least.

; {>

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

>>>>>>>EXCERPT>>>>>>

What does it all mean?. I dunno.

<<<<<<<<EXCERPT<<<<<<<<

A truth well spoken. Most people are ignorant of the truth and lash out blindly or take the PC side because above all they want to be popular, and that truly stinks.

; {>

 

[columbus]

As I see it, until the Arab & most of the Islamic world reeducates it's children away from the hatred, nothing on the ground will change between people even if a 'peace' is forced.

It isn't just the Islamic world. Much of the ridiculously poor and revisionist history I hear from the Christian Zionists is pretty scary.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I admire what the Israelis have built. But the way it happened has left deep and permanent resentments. I am afraid that the little scrap of real estate between Lebanon and Egypt is going to be the flash point of a global war that will make WWII look like a barroom brawl by comparison.

Little things like pretending that Jerusalem is just another city, when it's claimed by three different religions as Holy Ground, is stupid. All three have enough irrational crazies willing to kill and die for it to start a war. And all three have shown a longstanding historical willingness to fight with and oppress the others when they get a chance.
Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen would be a small tactical nuke goes off on Temple Mount, rendering the whole city an uninhabitable glass dish for centuries.
Tom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You are wrong about what is worse, the truly bad and evil things are ignorance (from where your comments emerge) and bigotry. Trump said he will welcome any two state solutions! What part of that didn't you understand? Trump was only confirming what is already true and he had the balls to do it unlike the other weenies that came before him. Evangelical Christians know they can not influence destiny or prophesy. However, we can do the right thing by defending our poltical ally, (Israel) and for Christians Israel is our spiritual homeland. So no its not Evangelical Christians that are dangerous so far its been terminally naive people that believe Arab propaganda which includes revisionist history, and downright evildoers that support Israels destruction. Evildoers like the Islamic terrorists who slaughter anyone that does not agree with their idea of what color you should poop. Sorry I disagree with your opinion, to say the least.

; {>

Like I said the observant Jews think Christian push for Trump to make Jerusalem the capital is probably comical but a benefit to them.

But hey let this guy tell it.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

*(The Jordanian refugees who call them selves Palestinians really have ZERO history of a homeland)

What about the land they were living on before they became refugees? You know, the land where they had their homes?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It isn't just the Islamic world. Much of the ridiculously poor and revisionist history I hear from the Christian Zionists is pretty scary.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I admire what the Israelis have built. But the way it happened has left deep and permanent resentments. I am afraid that the little scrap of real estate between Lebanon and Egypt is going to be the flash point of a global war that will make WWII look like a barroom brawl by comparison.

Little things like pretending that Jerusalem is just another city, when it's claimed by three different religions as Holy Ground, is stupid. All three have enough irrational crazies willing to kill and die for it to start a war. And all three have shown a longstanding historical willingness to fight with and oppress the others when they get a chance.
Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen would be a small tactical nuke goes off on Temple Mount, rendering the whole city an uninhabitable glass dish for centuries.
Tom

At times I think much the same way. I don't have a horse in the race either but if someone put a gun to my head I'd say I preferred Israel. But even then I think Israel has so many crimes to answer for.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It's amazing how Christians go to bat for Israel. The Israeli Jews who are observant of their faith don't even believe in your Jesus. They think you're Avodah Zarah and your faith is heretical.

Going by the internet its unclear whether its considered Avodah Zarah (idolatry) or b'shtuf (mixture). I suspect an orthodox Christian church would not be AZ to some determiners but to others yes. A Hindu temple is always Avodah Zarah. Its really not that interesting to someone on the outside. On the practical side I don't think there is currently any pressure for Jews to go into churches. While there are lots of churches they are easy to go around. Since they are easy to go around and since there is no compulsion to go in, they are probably not Avodah Zarah. Back in the day when there was pressure to convert it probably justified AZ a little bit more. These days there is slight pressure to celebrate Christmas and that's about it I think.

 

[rosends]

Going by the internet its unclear whether its considered Avodah Zarah (idolatry) or b'shtuf (mixture). I suspect an orthodox Christian church would not be AZ to some determiners but to others yes. A Hindu temple is always Avodah Zarah. Its really not that interesting to someone on the outside. On the practical side I don't think there is currently any pressure for Jews to go into churches. While there are lots of churches they are easy to go around. Since they are easy to go around and since there is no compulsion to go in, they are probably not Avodah Zarah. Back in the day when there was pressure to convert it probably justified AZ a little bit more. These days there is slight pressure to celebrate Christmas and that's about it I think.

The issues here are complex. The ancient concept of avodah zarah may or may not be one that is currently applicable at all. There are a variety of opinions. There are also discussions over the status of Christianity as ****uf vs. A"Z (but not "heresy"). Even Hinduism is not A"Z by consensus -- there are opinions that see it as ****uf also (at least for non-Jews...there are different categories and rules). In terms of linguistic use, though, a temple cannot be A"Z as Avodah Zarah is "strange worship", an act. So a belief system can be an expression of that worship but a place would be associated with A"Z.

 

[Revoltingest]

Too bad so many Christians are willing to kill and die for a tiny piece of real estate.
Tom

Someone else's real estate.

 

[columbus]

At times I think much the same way. I don't have a horse in the raise but if someone put a gun to my head I'd say I preferred Israel. But even then I think Israel has so many crimes to answer for.

This is the whole problem.
The Zionists have built a nice little country, against enormous obstacles. Basic human rights, a thriving economy, 1st world healthcare, Israel is vastly better than the standard Muslim country. I mean, c'mon, who still does hereditary monarchy?

But at the same time, the Zionists are invaders. They have done the kinds of things invaders do. They are also refugees, fleeing the oppression of EuroChristian and Muslim cultures.
There's plenty of blame to spread around here.

If the religionists would stop justifying nasty behavior with Scripture, people could get along better. But they aren't going to any time soon, because once a person has decided to divorce their ethics and world view from evidence and reason (and rely on prophets and ancient literature) , they could come to believe almost anything.

And as the Zionist/Palestinian problem demonstrates, they'll kill and die for their beliefs and desires. Because "God says....."
Tom