Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[Subduction Zone]

They were punished that day. Death was some time away, but that day they were going to die. Before that day, if they obeyed God, they were not going to die. So on that day or in that day, they will surely die. If you want to go into the Hebrew we can do that, but the English is clear enough. They were punished from the day they ate the forbidden fruit.

English Standard Version
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for IN the day that you eat of it you SHALL SURELY die.”

Berean Study Bible
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for IN the day that you eat of it, you WILL surely die.”

New American Standard Bible
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for IN the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

King James Bible
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for IN the day that thou eatest thereof thou SHALL surely die.

Ever watch The Sharks? Mr. Wonderful sometimes says to someone,, "You're dead to me."

So it still says they would die that day and they did not. Like it or not God lied.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Languages cannot always be perfectly understood in the inflections. Surely die is an expression of future certain occurrence.

And yet the experts that translate it tend to say "that day".

All you can do is to play linguistic games.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, and the Hebrew version appears to match the interpretations that I linked. I mentioned that yesterday.

And please, a judge would never use such poor English.

No? So what does it mean when a judge says, "It has been determined today by this court that you are sentenced to death."

 

[Subduction Zone]

So?

You were the one that did not understand the reference to that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No? So what does it mean when a judge says, "It has been determined today by this court that you are sentenced to death."

That you are going to die sometime in the future. Not that day.

 

[YoursTrue]

And yet the experts that translate it tend to say "that day".

All you can do is to play linguistic games.

No, you are the one playing games. The Blibe is clear.

 

[YoursTrue]

That you are going to die sometime in the future. Not that day.

It says on or in that day you SHALL DIE. Clear enough.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, you are the one playing games. The Blibe is clear.

Yes, it is clear, God lied. They did not die that day and he said that they would. How can I be playing games when I do not have to change what the Bible says?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It says on or in that day you SHALL DIE. Clear enough.

Did they die on that day? No.

Why get so mad? Clearly Genesis is all myth. We know that we are the product of evolution. That there was no worldwide flood. Why do you want to make God a liar?

 

[YoursTrue]

That you are going to die sometime in the future. Not that day.

They were to die the day they ate from that tree. They passed the line on that day

 

[gnostic]

That's a good point!

We have our faults and make mistakes, don't we?

(Actually, Jacob wasn't viewed by God as rebellious for what he did.... it shows he appreciated spiritual things more than his brother, who was quick to sell his birthright. That was Esau's fault: Jacob didn't twist his arm. Misleading his father Isaac, though... how was he to receive the blessing, otherwise? Don't forget, his Mother Rebecca supported him.)

David was another story, though. He did bad things, but he always showed repentance!

No, that’s not the problem.

The problem is that God supported liars and cheaters, and in David’s case, a murderer.

Now Jacob can get away with what he did, because there were no law against deceiving his father and brother.

But David has no such excuse, since the laws were in place. David broke not 3 laws from the Ten Commandments, but 4 of them:

1. Do not murder.
2. Do not commit adultery.
3. Do not covet your neighbor’s wife.
4. Do not bear false witness...in another words, no lying.

If he had not being God’s favorite, David would have and should have suffer worse fate than predecessor, King Saul.

If God is really a god that exist, then he is a hypocrite. Where is David’s punishment?

He didn’t pay the price for his sins, his child did, dying a slow agonizing death for days.

There are only 2 innocents in this entire David-Bathsheba story, and it isn’t David or Bathsheba, but it is also, isn’t God who murdered the baby.

I cannot remember who said it in what book in the Bible, but it goes something like this:

No son should pay for his father’s sin, and no father should pay for his son’s sin.​

God just broke his own rule, and made David’s son pay the ultimate price. Hence, the Bible’s hypocrisy, where god cannot follow the rules he had made.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They were to die the day they ate from that tree. They passed the line on that day

They "crossed the line" but they did not die that day. They were sentenced to die that day. That is not the same thing.

 

[YoursTrue]

Did they die on that day? No.

Why get so mad? Clearly Genesis is all myth. We know that we are the product of evolution. That there was no worldwide flood. Why do you want to make God a liar?

You're funny. You called God a liar and make your case because you say God said they would die on the same day they ate the fruit. Then you say they didn't die that day. Then you say I'm angry. you are making things up. . But I have enjoyed the conversation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're funny. You called God a liar and make your case because you say God said they would die on the same day they ate the fruit. Then you say they didn't die that day. Then you say I'm angry. you are making things up. . But I have enjoyed the conversation.

No, I point out how if you take the Genesis myth literally you are the one calling God a liar. Work on your logic skills a bit. If you take the Flood myth seriously you are calling God a liar. I am not the one that takes Genesis literally. I would think that as a Christian you would not like to call God a liar.

 

[YoursTrue]

They "crossed the line" but they did not die that day. They were sentenced to die that day. That is not the same thing.

Again it says the day you eat from that tree you shall - SHALL - die. They crossed from life to death that day. That day. No, I am not angry. it's like going to another country with no possibility of return. You are interesting.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again it says the day you eat from that tree you shall - SHALL - die. They crossed from life to death that day. That day. No, I am not angry. it's like going to another country with no possibility of return. You are interesting.

And you are trying to spin the story. Read the verses that I quoted from various sources. They all say that the day that they ate the fruit that they would die.

Of course that is not the only way that you are saying that God lied.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I point out how if you take the Genesis myth literally you are the one calling God a liar.

One thing at a time. You want to jump into another point when you have not understood what in or on that day means.

 

[Subduction Zone]

One thing at a time. You want to jump into another point when you have not understood what in or on that day means.

I understand it just fine. I am not the one spinning here.

 

[Jos]

Cool. A happy slave. That doesn't sound too bad.
If you were put in prison (doesn't sound very confined,but...), given a wife, a mansion with all you could wish for, the best free food delivered to you, and the privilege to invite guest, and have gatherings...
would you complain?

No but that goes to show that no one can ever truly be free

if you can come up with an answer. What is true happiness, and how does one acquire true happiness?
Your opinion?

I guess true happiness would be a choice... where one is happy and sees positivity even when things aren't going their way. I don't know if true happiness can ever be attained but I think nonexistence is possibly the only way to be happy since you won't have any desires, emotions, expectations etc.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No, that’s not the problem.

The problem is that God supported liars and cheaters, and in David’s case, a murderer.

Now Jacob can get away with what he did, because there were no law against deceiving his father and brother.

But David has no such excuse, since the laws were in place. David broke not 3 laws from the Ten Commandments, but 4 of them:

1. Do not murder.
2. Do not commit adultery.
3. Do not covet your neighbor’s wife.
4. Do not bear false witness...in another words, no lying.

If he had not being God’s favorite, David would have and should have suffer worse fate than predecessor, King Saul.

If God is really a god that exist, then he is a hypocrite. Where is David’s punishment?

He didn’t pay the price for his sins, his child did, dying a slow agonizing death for days.

There are only 2 innocents in this entire David-Bathsheba story, and it isn’t David or Bathsheba, but it is also, isn’t God who murdered the baby.

I cannot remember who said it in what book in the Bible, but it goes something like this:

No son should pay for his father’s sin, and no father should pay for his son’s sin.​

God just broke his own rule, and made David’s son pay the ultimate price. Hence, the Bible’s hypocrisy, where god cannot follow the rules he had made.

Interesting that the Bible relates that situation, doesn’t it? It reveals a candidness it seems, within its pages, many times.

It gives credence to its authenticity.