You sound a bit reaching at this point, djewleu. I'm not much of a church guy, so i don't really tithe much. There wouldn't be much point in me going since I do not believe in God. However, tithing is one of the better ideas Christianity has had.
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Thou shalt not kill
- Thread starter djewleu
- Start date
You sound a bit reaching at this point, djewleu. I'm not much of a church guy, so i don't really tithe much. There wouldn't be much point in me going since I do not believe in God. However, tithing is one of the better ideas Christianity has had.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
ah but what I am referring to are symbols of the Aten....
that the egyptians would be keen to destroy....
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
What makes you say that?
I mean, I'm not against it, myself, it's necessary. But calling it one of their better ideas seems to go beyond that.
I think giving to the poor is one of the most selfless things you can do. That is all.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Ah, ok.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
The topic is breaking down.
Let's go back to the point of delivery.
In doing so...can we agree...that the existence of Moses is a separate discussion?
Can we also agree...for this thread...the events surrounding Moses can be discussed without needing a commitment of faith?
If so....
Picture yourself as Moses.
Having to witness abuse dealt unto someone else, you respond by killing the perpetrator.
You then attempt to hide the body.
The body is discovered. To escape the pending accusation, you flee into the wilderness.
At the age of eighty, you climb a mountain.
No doubt you are climbing that particular mountain because the people of that region believe it is God's mountain.
It is considered trespass to walk upon God's mountain,it is holy and it is said you will not return, and will die for the transgression.
You go...anyway.
You climb to meet your God. You go there to die.
You then meet God.
Instead of killing you for your transgression of trespass....God delivers a task to be performed.
As you scribe the commandment...
'Thou shalt not have other gods before you'....
God is behind you, 'looking' over your shoulder...
and have you not worshiped other gods when you lived in Egypt?
'Thou shalt not kill'...and was it not a killing that took you out of Egypt?
If you can actually 'see' yourself as Moses...
you might then understand how precarious his relationship with God, actually was.
Let's go back to the point of delivery.
In doing so...can we agree...that the existence of Moses is a separate discussion?
Can we also agree...for this thread...the events surrounding Moses can be discussed without needing a commitment of faith?
If so....
Picture yourself as Moses.
Having to witness abuse dealt unto someone else, you respond by killing the perpetrator.
You then attempt to hide the body.
The body is discovered. To escape the pending accusation, you flee into the wilderness.
At the age of eighty, you climb a mountain.
No doubt you are climbing that particular mountain because the people of that region believe it is God's mountain.
It is considered trespass to walk upon God's mountain,it is holy and it is said you will not return, and will die for the transgression.
You go...anyway.
You climb to meet your God. You go there to die.
You then meet God.
Instead of killing you for your transgression of trespass....God delivers a task to be performed.
As you scribe the commandment...
'Thou shalt not have other gods before you'....
God is behind you, 'looking' over your shoulder...
and have you not worshiped other gods when you lived in Egypt?
'Thou shalt not kill'...and was it not a killing that took you out of Egypt?
If you can actually 'see' yourself as Moses...
you might then understand how precarious his relationship with God, actually was.
djewleu
Member
Thief, very good!
Moses KILLED a policeman in Egypt and ran away to save his life.
Later he promulgated a law that said "life for life", but he never paid for the crime of murder he committed against that first victim!
That's how an honest student studies the holy book of that weird IDOL Moses named Jehovah!
Later in his years, he committed the most heinous crime of all against the Midianites, murdering thousands of pregnant women and male children, delivering the young virgins to his militias, etc!!
Numbers 31:17, the most horrendous verse in the entire Bible!
"Thou shalt not kill!", never respected in the entire Bible!
Moses KILLED a policeman in Egypt and ran away to save his life.
Later he promulgated a law that said "life for life", but he never paid for the crime of murder he committed against that first victim!
That's how an honest student studies the holy book of that weird IDOL Moses named Jehovah!
Later in his years, he committed the most heinous crime of all against the Midianites, murdering thousands of pregnant women and male children, delivering the young virgins to his militias, etc!!
Numbers 31:17, the most horrendous verse in the entire Bible!
"Thou shalt not kill!", never respected in the entire Bible!
djewleu
Member
I don't believe it, simple!
Why do you then stop giving one to get ten?!!!...
Pull the other one, man!
That's the first good point you've made.
"Thou shalt not MURDER!" I already explained this to you! Didn't you read my post?
It gets worse, you know. The Midianites were the people Moshe lived with during his exile from Egypt. His wife was from these people. How do you suppose he must have felt when he learned that his wife's people had seduced his people? The order is not reported to have come from YHWH, and it is also not reported that the horrible order was even carried out.
BTW, you keep saying that Moshe had created YHWH, but you haven't supported that argument yet, so it remains worthless.
Originally Posted by djewleu
Moses KILLED a policeman in Egypt and ran away to save his life.
Later he promulgated a law that said "life for life", but he never paid for the crime of murder he committed against that first victim!
He never "promulgated" anything. Think on this, if Moses was guilty of a crime in Egypt, why didn't the Egyptians arrest him as soon as he later appears before Pharaoh? Eh? They had plenty of opportunity and certainly a good motive to arrest him!
Frubals for understanding the law is against murder and not killing.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Thanks for the pat on the back.
But now...please take your hand off of my shoulder.
My post was written to examine that law, through the eyes of Moses.
From the disposition of your words ...I see you failed to do so.
djewleu
Member
The Midianites did not provoke Moses or his followers.
Moses and his fugitives were the ones who appeared in those lands, to rob those inhabitants.
Then he invented the story that Canaan was for his "chosen people"!
He was always a liar.
Much crime was committed to implement the holy plan!
Moses invented the tetragrammaton in Exodus 6:3.
Moses and his fugitives were the ones who appeared in those lands, to rob those inhabitants.
Then he invented the story that Canaan was for his "chosen people"!
He was always a liar.
Much crime was committed to implement the holy plan!
Moses invented the tetragrammaton in Exodus 6:3.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
So Man is a creature that makes war.
And it seems every culture is tried under the such grief.
But that's not the topic...Thou shalt not kill.
And I get an impression, there is a need to defame Moses....somewhere in these postings?
footprints
Well-Known Member
Let me get this right, you are condemning Moses and the Torah for breaking a commandment, then later on in another post you are saying Moses should have let them go, albeit you cannot let Moses go and must condemn him then ridicule and condemn another group of people by saying Moses never existed?
Personally I think you have said enough to condemn yourself and have done a Socrates to yourself.
Like Riverwolf has said, you cannot rationally nor logically, judge people of the past for upholding the laws of their time. It would be just as inane to judge everybody who upholds our laws of doing the wrong thing.
It is even more inane, considering you say later on in another post that Moses never existed, to use something you don't believe ever existed to condemn a group of people by saying this non existent person is proof they did something wrong and should have done something different. Now you can't have it both ways, either Moses never existed, or he existed and did something you conceive as wrong even though he would have only been upholding the laws of the day.
imaginaryme
Active Member
Shlat:
When agenda meets mortality... shlat! :biglaugh:
Life is good. Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
When agenda meets mortality... shlat! :biglaugh:
Life is good. Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
An even better point.
djewleu
Member
Another dose of rhetoric, for goodness' sake! I'm tired of idiotic missives!
Following your point, I agree that "thou shalt not kill/murder/slaughter/maim/assassinate/snuff out/shoot/gun down/ massacre/slay/hang" is a commandment NEVER obeyed in the history of Israel.
Therefore, why keep the Bible and worship Moses and his idol Jehovah?!...
You don't have to directly worship YHWH, the God of Avraham, Yitzhak, and Yakov, to read, enjoy, and find wisdom in the Tanakh, and you don't have to believe Jesus to be the Messiah to follow his teachings, WHICH, by the way, are nearly perfectly paralleled in Hinduism and Confucianism. (Especially the latter.)
Besides, if nothing else, we keep it as a part of history and culture. Like it or not, modern Western culture, even the parts that are not religious, were born from this book.
That long list of nonsense is not what the commandment said. It's pretty clear you're not even reading posts, and it's also very obvious that you never read the Biblical canon. I tell you the truth: until you read it for real (and that means STUDY), you will be forever ill-equipped to successfully debate its issues, as I once was until a member here directed me to some great material.
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djewleu
Member
Riverwolf, I studied the Bible for 35 years!
I discovered that it is a dangerous WEAPON with which MILLIONS have been murdered & martyred!
The Western culture / civilization was not "born" out/from the Bible "this book": religious charlatans IMPOSED the superstition in this "holy book" upon the ILLITERATE citizens!
There is a monstrous difference.
"Thou Shalt Not MURDER" was never respect!!!
It is a diabolical IDOL, the one you presumably worship [the Jehovah of all faiths!] that has no BETTER plan than to KILL to uphold ITS holy character.
Your reasoning is too shallow for me.
I discovered that it is a dangerous WEAPON with which MILLIONS have been murdered & martyred!
The Western culture / civilization was not "born" out/from the Bible "this book": religious charlatans IMPOSED the superstition in this "holy book" upon the ILLITERATE citizens!
There is a monstrous difference.
"Thou Shalt Not MURDER" was never respect!!!
It is a diabolical IDOL, the one you presumably worship [the Jehovah of all faiths!] that has no BETTER plan than to KILL to uphold ITS holy character.
Your reasoning is too shallow for me.