Thou shalt not kill

[imaginaryme]

I've read the Bible, and accept what it offers on one level; then again, I've read the historical record which seems to indicate that such as "Moses" never actually existed, and that the books attributed to him trace back to six authors who were known only by their initials.

The moral I get from the tale of Moses is that prophets don't lead.

And sure we can judge; that's what we do - Monday morning quarterbacking. It's a symptom of the race. But what is the real point here? I'm willing to bet, even though I'm a carnivore myself, that eventually we will find that any killing is "wrong," period. I've heard that it is something of a Native American tradition to thank the spirit of the animal that has given its life for consumption; and I'm thinking that we all "suffer" from such a lack of purification and balance.

But I don't kill you because you are me. It's really that simple, although I get lippy at times.

 

[imaginaryme]

Riverwolf, I studied the Bible for 35 years!
I discovered that it is a dangerous WEAPON with which MILLIONS have been murdered & martyred!
The Western culture / civilization was not "born" out/from the Bible "this book": religious charlatans IMPOSED the superstition in this "holy book" upon the ILLITERATE citizens!
There is a monstrous difference.
"Thou Shalt Not MURDER" was never respect!!!
It is a diabolical IDOL, the one you presumably worship [the Jehovah of all faiths!] that has no BETTER plan than to KILL to uphold ITS holy character.
Your reasoning is too shallow for me.

Somebody needs to chill... sounds like you're ready to murder the murderers, and that never works.

 

[Riverwolf]

Riverwolf, I studied the Bible for 35 years!

Really? It doesn't show. How did you study them and with whom? And which translation? (Trust me: that can make all the difference.)

I discovered that it is a dangerous WEAPON with which MILLIONS have been murdered & martyred!

So people were beaten to death with Bibles? As in, literally?

Here's a lesson about weapons: a sword is not a weapon. A gun is not a weapon. They are just inanimate objects. They do not become weapons until arms with malicious intent wields them. The Biblical canon, and any other book, is the same way.

The Western culture / civilization was not "born" out/from the Bible "this book": religious charlatans IMPOSED the superstition in this "holy book" upon the ILLITERATE citizens!

What do you know about civilizations before and around Israel during ancient times? Would you have preferred that?

There is a monstrous difference.
"Thou Shalt Not MURDER" was never respect!!!

It certainly wasn't later on, but then, Rome was always a place of war and imperialism. Christianity didn't really change anything.

Don't forget about the death and destruction at the hands of Alexander. Don't forget about the Roman conquest of most of Europe and the Mediterranean area. Don't forget about China's warring states, nor Japan's feudal era.

It all would have continued even without the Biblical canon.

It is a diabolical IDOL, the one you presumably worship [the Jehovah of all faiths!] that has no BETTER plan than to KILL to uphold ITS holy character.

I've never seen any evidence for that tripe. And by the way, I worship the Forms and Energies of Sri Bhagavan Harihara.

Your reasoning is too shallow for me.

How is yours not shallow? All you moan about is KILL KILL KILL!!! I've never seen such shallowness and an unwillingness to learn. You've just provided a single piece of the picture: that DEATH EXISTS AND CERTAIN PEOPLE SEEK IT FOR OTHERS! YES that is PART of the picture!

Trust me: I DO NOT DENY that horrible atrocities were committed with religion used as the excuse. However, taking it away won't help anything.

Let me ask you something: should the works of Nietzsche be burned and forgotten simply because Hitler was inspired by his writings? Should the Art of War be forgotten because Mao Zi Dong used it?

 

[djewleu]

Nietzsche made a mess of his life, like other philosophers, but I like some of what he wrote [not much, actually].
However, he was also reacting against religion and its atrocities to highlight its god's holy character, so-called!
He was another victim of his environment.
If he never existed, nothing would have been lost.
The same "principle" applies to you and to me.
Nietzsche's delusion was exactly like the delusions of all other men.
Philosophy has not helped to tame & domesticate our deranged human temperament.
We still are the beasts that we are always.
The worst beast on the planet.
OK, granted, we sometimes are nice beasts...!

 

[Riverwolf]

Nietzsche made a mess of his life, like other philosophers, but I like some of what he wrote [not much, actually].
However, he was also reacting against religion and its atrocities to highlight its god's holy character, so-called!
He was another victim of his environment.
If he never existed, nothing would have been lost.
The same "principle" applies to you and to me.
Nietzsche's delusion was exactly like the delusions of all other men.
Philosophy has not helped to tame & domesticate our deranged human temperament.
We still are the beasts that we are always.
The worst beast on the planet.
OK, granted, we sometimes are nice beasts...!

And now, with your view of the world given light, much of it falls into perspective.

The child is the father of man.

 

[djewleu]

"The child is the father of man."
In all frankness, to me poets are but another form of human losers.
Poetry has never resolved even one small social problem, never mind the great mysteries of existence.
Most poets were delusional, Wordsworth, too.
We applaud the dead poets for unworthy/undeserved sympathy.

 

[Pacificus]

"The child is the father of man."
In all frankness, to me poets are but another form of human losers.
Poetry has never resolved even one small social problem, never mind the great mysteries of existence.
Most poets were delusional, Wordsworth, too.
We applaud the dead poets for unworthy/undeserved sympathy.

And one man's misguided outrage will resolve what?

 

[imaginaryme]

"The child is the father of man."
In all frankness, to me poets are but another form of human losers.
Poetry has never resolved even one small social problem, never mind the great mysteries of existence.
Most poets were delusional, Wordsworth, too.
We applaud the dead poets for unworthy/undeserved sympathy.

Hey, now... now you're talking crazy talk.

Next thing you know, you'll be saying mathematicians are useless; and them's fightin' words!

The thing about religion is that it plays to an audience it already knows. Most of us know better than to get gluttonous or greedy, kill others, take what isn't ours... so, what happens is a re-affirmation of truths we already hold dear. It also makes these ideals somewhat concrete, in that people forget to think when there's an "instruction manual" close at hand. A lot of people don't stumble over the deep philosophical issues because the workings of morality and causality quickly become a tangled morass, so they just sit in a pew and soak up the dogma because it feels good, it feels like they're "part of a caring society;" an hour our two on Sunday,they're all primed for another week of debauchery.

And, of course there are those who take advantage, There are always those who exploit the system, and that will continue as long as there is a system to exploit; but if it wasn't Yahweh and Jesus it would be Janus and Jupiter... it is an inevitable "scheme" of human development. Take it with a grain of salt, toss back a shot of vodka, and get back to living the life.

 

[Storm]

Riverwolf, I studied the Bible for 35 years!
I discovered that it is a dangerous WEAPON with which MILLIONS have been murdered & martyred!
The Western culture / civilization was not "born" out/from the Bible "this book": religious charlatans IMPOSED the superstition in this "holy book" upon the ILLITERATE citizens!
There is a monstrous difference.
"Thou Shalt Not MURDER" was never respect!!!
It is a diabolical IDOL, the one you presumably worship [the Jehovah of all faiths!] that has no BETTER plan than to KILL to uphold ITS holy character.
Your reasoning is too shallow for me.

:biglaugh:

 

[Riverwolf]

"The child is the father of man."
In all frankness, to me poets are but another form of human losers.
Poetry has never resolved even one small social problem, never mind the great mysteries of existence.
Most poets were delusional, Wordsworth, too.
We applaud the dead poets for unworthy/undeserved sympathy.

Why, I'm almost insulted.

Since when was poetry supposed to solve a social problem? I tell you the truth: if my poetry helps even one person through life, I have succeeded.

It is society that is charged with keeping itself, and we both know, I think, that modern American society, which is materialistic, selfish, and impatient, is doomed. No amount of art will change that.

Now, do you understand the meaning? Or are you just going to complain some more?

 

[djewleu]

All "societies" are doomed, for history tells us that so clearly. The human "beast" is undomesticatable [and the worst species in this horror planet].
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" was an empty commandment; a presumption from some weird Jewish idol. I would rephrase it "Thou Shalt KILL ALL IDOLS"!

 

[Riverwolf]

All "societies" are doomed, for history tells us that so clearly. The human "beast" is undomesticatable [and the worst species in this horror planet].
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" was an empty commandment; a presumption from some weird Jewish idol. I would rephrase it "Thou Shalt KILL ALL IDOLS"!

Oh, please. So long as lifeforms can sense, idols will always exist.

 

[Thief]

Oh, please. So long as lifeforms can sense, idols will always exist.

Not so.
There is another thread taking place...about why humans are special.
I say we are special ...that we suspect a spiritual life...and pray for cause of it.

The rest of life on this planet seems.... unaware.

Apparently no one here is considering...Why not kill?

If you consider the lack of restriction...as found on Day Six of Genesis...
you might then see the cause to pronounce...Thou shalt not kill.

 

[Riverwolf]

Not so.
There is another thread taking place...about why humans are special.
I say we are special ...that we suspect a spiritual life...and pray for cause of it.

The rest of life on this planet seems.... unaware.

Apparently no one here is considering...Why not kill?

If you consider the lack of restriction...as found on Day Six of Genesis...
you might then see the cause to pronounce...Thou shalt not kill.

Idols exist, whether in our minds or created by our hands. They are helpers for those who may not have a very high intellect or abstract thinking find God. No matter what, when you think, you think of something. When that something is something loved and worshiped, it becomes an idol.

Trust me; the rest of life is not unaware. They are very much aware; just as we were very much aware as toddlers.

 

[Zardoz]

Another dose of rhetoric, for goodness' sake! I'm tired of idiotic missives!

I have never seen a more idiotic statement on RF as your next one:

...Therefore, why keep the Bible and worship Moses and his idol J....

Congratulations! You are now on my ignore list! Please put me on your ignore list as well, djewleu, then you will never have to hear another...

... presumption from some weird Jewish idol..

again from me.

 

[djewleu]

Oh, come on! Don't take it so personal!
It wasn't to mean an offense to anybody; it really was not.
Sorry, anyway [for my innocent stupidity, that is].

 

[imaginaryme]

Stop lying. You're an agent of chaos, here to do evil; we all know.

Wait... that's me. :angel2:

All this freaking contentiousness over nothing. Djewleu obviously came here to blow off steam - just like I do in the "evolution" threads - and if he is anything like I am - a greater purpose is served by spreading "malicious word" rather than deed. Because some days, I just wanna grab the Remington pump and go pro-active in my crusade against Creationism, and what would that solve? (Except my restlessness?) Words really should not be allowed to hurt no one, and people should really wake up to this fact.

 

[djewleu]

Creationism? What's that?...
That there was a Creator?
And then the Creator rested on the Sabbath and did nothing else?
No!
What was the Sabbath, by the way?
"Thou shalt keep the sabbath! Otherwise I will murder thee"!
Oh!...

 

[imaginaryme]

That's right. It's "kill 'em all" day. They show up on these here 'nets, and we kill 'em. They are all supposed to be resting and praying and sackcloth and ashes and stuff.

It all depends on the individual. Obviously, institutionalized religion is deeply (I say irrevocably) flawed. Most don't want to admit that, but most don't think. A good many don't even read the Bible. I read it, it's fine; but I never made into more than it is - a tool. Just like my katana is a tool. Only blood ever been on my sword, is mine; for not respecting the tool - thing will cut some fool's head clean off.

And everybody knows who the fool is, round here.

 

[Storm]

Oh, come on! Don't take it so personal!
It wasn't to mean an offense to anybody; it really was not.
Sorry, anyway [for my innocent stupidity, that is].

I find that rather hard to believe. You choose the most inflammatory language possible under forum rules to spew your thoughtless bigotry, and then claim it's not meant to be personal?

Bull****.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop acting like a troll.