Thou shalt not kill

[djewleu]

And Moses arrived back in the camp with the Law Tables under his arms, and right away ordered the KILLING of THREE THOUSAND of his followers!!
Was he not the first to read that commandment?
There you are!
There you see that “Thou Shalt Not Kill” was never obeyed, starting with Moses and the idol he invented, Jehovah!
Exodus 32:28.

 

[Dunemeister]

I see the general level of literacy hasn't changed much since Moses' day.

 

[Riverwolf]

"You shall not murder." (Ex. 20:13)

20:13. murder. Hebrew, like English, distinguishes between "murder" and "killing." "Murder" refers only to the taking of human life, and it is subject to the death penalty only when committed with malicious intent. The cases of manslaughter, killing through negligence, killing in war, execution for crimes, killing animals, animals killing humans, and human sacrifice are all treated separately from this in teh Torah, and terms other than "murder" are used. (On the special circumstance of the one who murders without malice, see Deut 4:41-42.) At the same time that I am writing this, technology has raised new cases, including abortion and assisted suicide. Whatever one's view of these matters, one cannot simply claim that they are prohibited by the commandment against murder. One must argue whether they are consistent with the other cases that constitute murder or if they belong among the cases that ivolved taking life but still are not murder.

-Richard Elliot Friedman Commentary on the Torah

Have you ever even READ the Torah? Those three-thousand were no longer his followers, but were now following a creation of their own hands, which was not YHWH, who had brought them out of Egypt. They had committed a capital offense of the time, and were executed.

Nowadays, it's against our laws to execute someone for their beliefs, and thank goodness. But it's inappropriate to judge a piece of literature from antiquity by our own standards. (Especially since our own standards are very low, apparently.)

 

[Riverwolf]

I see the general level of literacy hasn't changed much since Moses' day.

Or since the days of Adam, for that matter.

Oi... tens of thousands of years of technological development, and human tendencies haven't really evolved much beyond the jungle...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I see the general level of literacy hasn't changed much since Moses' day.

Ironic, since the level of writing has increased dramatically.

 

[Pacificus]

And Moses arrived back in the camp with the Law Tables under his arms, and right away ordered the KILLING of THREE THOUSAND of his followers!!
Was he not the first to read that commandment?
There you are!
There you see that “Thou Shlat Not Kill” was never obeyed, starting with Moses and the idol he invented, Jehovah!
Exodus 32:28.

What exactly are you trying to argue? That Moses disobeyed? I'm a little slow sometimes, so if you could be a little more direct with your proposal it would help me understand. Thanks!

 

[djewleu]

"You shall not murder." (Ex. 20:13)

20:13. murder. Hebrew, like English, distinguishes between "murder" and "killing." "Murder" refers only to the taking of human life, and it is subject to the death penalty only when committed with malicious intent. The cases of manslaughter, killing through negligence, killing in war, execution for crimes, killing animals, animals killing humans, and human sacrifice are all treated separately from this in teh Torah, and terms other than "murder" are used. (On the special circumstance of the one who murders without malice, see Deut 4:41-42.) At the same time that I am writing this, technology has raised new cases, including abortion and assisted suicide. Whatever one's view of these matters, one cannot simply claim that they are prohibited by the commandment against murder. One must argue whether they are consistent with the other cases that constitute murder or if they belong among the cases that ivolved taking life but still are not murder.

-Richard Elliot Friedman Commentary on the Torah

Have you ever even READ the Torah? Those three-thousand were no longer his followers, but were now following a creation of their own hands, which was not YHWH, who had brought them out of Egypt. They had committed a capital offense of the time, and were executed.

Nowadays, it's against our laws to execute someone for their beliefs, and thank goodness. But it's inappropriate to judge a piece of literature from antiquity by our own standards. (Especially since our own standards are very low, apparently.)

If the 3000 were no longer Moses' followers, let them go!
Not MURDER them!!!
Let them find a better, more humane god to follow!!!!
They did not commit any crime deserving death!!!!
You are apparently defending MURDER of innocent people.
They were having an act of worship to an idol Moses' brother made for them.
Moses' brother was not murdered.
It was Moses' fault that he delayed his holidays on the mount.
Had he come back one or two day earlier, the calf had not been cast!
Moses is a MURDERER.
Jehovah is an IDOL Moses INVENTED [Exodus 6:3].
Religion is murder.

 

[Pacificus]

I do not generally take a defensive stance on the side of ancient holy books. However, I'm fairly sure that this is probably not an accurate historical account. There is some hidden message maybe? Disobedience is bad? Maybe?

 

[djewleu]

Yes, maybe.
Most [liberal] critical studies reject the text as literal.
There was no Exodus; there was no Moses; there were no slaves.
Nothing.
It is all folklore, superstition and now religious MERCHANTS taking advantage of our stupidity to believe such nonsense.

 

[Valjean]

Murder is illegal killing, wouldn't this, at the time, have been largely a question of when it's proper to stone your own tribsmen?

 

[djewleu]

Bottom line of all these horrific crimes described in the Bible is the INSANITY of calling it a holy book!
And worse: you go to church Sunday and have to give the parasitic elite your cash to perpetuate the emotional abuse!

 

[Riverwolf]

If the 3000 were no longer Moses' followers, let them go!
Not MURDER them!!!
Let them find a better, more humane god to follow!!!!
They did not commit any crime deserving death!!!!
You are apparently defending MURDER of innocent people.
They were having an act of worship to an idol Moses' brother made for them.
Moses' brother was not murdered.
It was Moses' fault that he delayed his holidays on the mount.
Had he come back one or two day earlier, the calf had not been cast!
Moses is a MURDERER.
Jehovah is an IDOL Moses INVENTED [Exodus 6:3].
Religion is murder.

That was not the way of them in those days. A crime was committed, as YHWH had brought them out of Egypt, saved them from slavery, and their thanks is to ignore him completely. In other words, they betrayed him: to betray your savior was worthy of death, as it demonstrates that you are exploitative and selfish.

Now, before you start calling YHWH an idol, you should know what it means: an idol, in those days, anyway, was a hand-made statue or statuette used for worship. YHWH has none of those, and forbade the use of such things.

And one more thing: before you start saying that religion is murder, you need to support such tripe. You have not, as you've simply provided your version of an ancient story, using all sorts of colorful metaphors that don't mean anything.

 

[Riverwolf]

Bottom line of all these horrific crimes described in the Bible is the INSANITY of calling it a holy book!

COLLECTION of books! How many times do I have to say it before you even read my posts?

You have to demonstrate how these are legally crimes for the time period. Human beings decide what are crimes, as the law exists in our minds. Now, since those acts which would be crimes nowadays were not considered crimes in those days, they are not crimes.

And worse: you go to church Sunday and have to give the parasitic elite your cash to perpetuate the emotional abuse!

I study it on my own; I don't go to church very often. There is no church worthy if they require you to pay in order to go, and, believe it or not, I've NEVER come across a church that does. The couple of times I've gone to a church, the admission has been completely free, with donations not asked for at all.

 

[Pacificus]

I agree with Riverwolf.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Moses is a MURDERER.
Jehovah is an IDOL Moses INVENTED [Exodus 6:3].
Religion is murder.

monkeys are hairy
tea pots are often yellow
and fish can sometiems fly

The Iron Lady, Queen of the Falkland Islands

 

[Reverend Rick]

And worse: you go to church Sunday and have to give the parasitic elite your cash to perpetuate the emotional abuse!

Ah, but you do not understand the blessing you receive when you give to others. Every time I give, I get back ten fold.

Merry Christmas djewleu

 

[Charity]

Yes, maybe.
Most [liberal] critical studies reject the text as literal.
There was no Exodus; there was no Moses; there were no slaves.
Nothing.
It is all folklore, superstition and now religious MERCHANTS taking advantage of our stupidity to believe such nonsense.

Then why are you so determined to disprove folklore and superstition?

I respect your right to arrive at the decision of "nonsense" but at least get the story in its proper prospective before beginning a discussion......

 

[Mr Cheese]

Yes, maybe.
Most [liberal] critical studies reject the text as literal.
There was no Exodus; there was no Moses; there were no slaves.
Nothing.
It is all folklore, superstition and now religious MERCHANTS taking advantage of our stupidity to believe such nonsense.

Yeah, Jews have a habit of denyiong any influence from Egypt though....

Exodus is seen as moving from ignorance to God, Egypt beign seen as darkness and supreme ignorance.

Yet there does exist Jewish pottery with Egyptian symbols on it....

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, maybe.
Most [liberal] critical studies reject the text as literal.
There was no Exodus; there was no Moses; there were no slaves.
Nothing.
It is all folklore, superstition and now religious MERCHANTS taking advantage of our stupidity to believe such nonsense.

It's an ancient story. Superstition would be the literal believing of it.

There are tons of Jews and Christians who do not take this story literally.

You don't have to believe it literally to find its value. In fact, I believe, you shouldn't believe it literally to find its true value.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yet there does exist Jewish pottery with Egyptian symbols on it....

Trade.

It would be pretty silly to think that the two cultures wouldn't trade with each other.