'They 'are beginning to accuse President Trump over Iran

[Notanumber]

If the oil tanker had violated some maritime law, why did those Iranians find it necessary to keep shouting “allahu akbar” as they seized it from international waters?

They seemed more like Islamic pirates than anything else.

 

[Audie]

If the oil tanker had violated some maritime law, why did those Iranians find it necessary to keep shouting “allahu akbar” as they seized it from international waters?

They seemed more like Islamic pirates than anything else.

The decent thing to do when someone makes
a navigational error, esp with something as messy
as an oil tanker when it hits something, is to
get out there and steer it back on course.

 

[oldbadger]

You misunderstood. The two tankers I was talking about were the two I linked. I thought the seizure of those two tankers had the two leading parties outraged not the rest. I was trying specific.

No probs.......

The situation has moved on, with Iran arresting and convicting 17 people for spying for the United States. It is reporting that it intends to execute some of the convicts. The US is denying all cases.

A representative of the US government has explained that the UK must make provision for the safe passage of its own ships through the straights of Hormuz and it has been reported on BBC News that the UK seeks closer alliance with European countries for assistance because it is now blaming the United States for the whole crisis, often repeating how the US left the international agreement over one year ago.

But there will be a new Prime Minister here within 24 hours, and the favourite contender, Boris, seems to seek closer ties with the US and the UK 'position' on all of this could alter course significantly by Wednesday evening.

One news report here suggested that the only way out of the situation for the UK might be to swap the arrested Iranian tanker for the Brit Stena-line tanker.

But folks are saying that if the UK wants to leave the EU that much closer ties with the USA will be needed, and so a 'We need you but we don't want you' dance is being choreographed at the moment, which Boris would definitely want to adjust before the musical score is even finished.

What a bloomin' mess................

 

[oldbadger]

I never mentioned anything about righteous. But the facts is Iran broke the deal many times in the first 3 years it was in place before the U.S said enough is enough we are pulling out, here is some sanctions btw. Then when Iran gets their panties in a wad everyone wants act like it's the U.S. fault. You may like looking up at Iran from your knees but not the U.S.

The whole crisis is in the mix.
If Boris wins the vote for Prime Minister then the UK's character will change significantly from any that Mr Hunt would show.

I couldn't tell you what the UK's position will be for a day or two.

We could be pointing fingers at the US for not offering help with Brit convoys, and blaming it for the trouble, or we could be clutching to you like a dearly beloved relative, whispering sweet nothings in your President's ears.

@Revoltingest would need counselling for the latter.....

 

[oldbadger]

If the oil tanker had violated some maritime law, why did those Iranians find it necessary to keep shouting “allahu akbar” as they seized it from international waters?

They seemed more like Islamic pirates than anything else.

At the moment the wobbly Brit government is calling Iran's actions 'State Piracy'.

Iranian military are mostly of the Islamic Guard, and their battle cry Allahoa-Akbar is a bit like our Tally-Ho........... What's yours?

Just now our leadership is as mashed up as it has been since we messed up at Suez......... and relations with the US were also strained at that time, I think.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot that you are a Brit. True? No need to guess at any US battle cries.

 

[Shad]

No probs.......

The situation has moved on, with Iran arresting and convicting 17 people for spying for the United States. It is reporting that it intends to execute some of the convicts. The US is denying all cases.

Standard response to any espionage claim make it hard to believe the Fed. It wouldn't surprise me. Am I correct in assuming the 17 are Iranians citizens rather than infiltration by a foreign force?

A representative of the US government has explained that the UK must make provision for the safe passage of its own ships through the straights of Hormuz and it has been reported on BBC News that the UK seeks closer alliance with European countries for assistance because it is now blaming the United States for the whole crisis, often repeating how the US left the international agreement over one year ago.

This is good in my view. I was worried about the UK dragging the US into a military conflict as UK has limited military options. Major strikes are beyond it's navy.

The blame game I do not accept. UK stepped in it. US has stepped in it multiple times from the start of the deal. Betting on Hillary to win the general election was a poor way to maintain foreign deals.

But there will be a new Prime Minister here within 24 hours, and the favourite contender, Boris, seems to seek closer ties with the US and the UK 'position' on all of this could alter course significantly by Wednesday evening.

Ugh just for the possibility for involvement of the US. More naval ships in the area means a high chance of military action. Russian ships have been using the old USSR trick of playing loose with navigation rules a few months back. The trick tests the capabilities of the vessel and training of the crew as the captain will want to avoid a collision

I do not know enough about Boris nor his platform to comment on those points.

One news report here suggested that the only way out of the situation for the UK might be to swap the arrested Iranian tanker for the Brit Stena-line tanker.

Yah this is the obvious compromise. The problem is which one blinks first. If the UK makes the offer it lose face and Iran wins. This was really the point of Iran's actions. To demonstrate the UK is not capable nor willing to maintain it's policy. To show the world that the UK is a regional power not a global one.

But folks are saying that if the UK wants to leave the EU that much closer ties with the USA will be needed, and so a 'We need you but we don't want you' dance is being choreographed at the moment, which Boris would definitely want to adjust before the musical score is even finished.

What a bloomin' mess................

Too many want their cake and eat it too.

Yah seems like a rough few years with a horrible government.

 

[Notanumber]

At the moment the wobbly Brit government is calling Iran's actions 'State Piracy'.

Iranian military are mostly of the Islamic Guard, and their battle cry Allahoa-Akbar is a bit like our Tally-Ho........... What's yours?

Just now our leadership is as mashed up as it has been since we messed up at Suez......... and relations with the US were also strained at that time, I think.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot that you are a Brit. True? No need to guess at any US battle cries.

A nation that is run by god’s laws is not rational.

How can a non-Islamic nation negotiate with Allah?

 

[oldbadger]

Standard response to any espionage claim make it hard to believe the Fed. It wouldn't surprise me. Am I correct in assuming the 17 are Iranians citizens rather than infiltration by a foreign force?

Yes. Iranian citizens. = treason.
If it's true.
Could be true.
I imagine that most countries support and reward citizens of other countries. We've found enough treachery within our own borders over the years.

This is good in my view. I was worried about the UK dragging the US into a military conflict as UK has limited military options. Major strikes are beyond it's navy.

The blame game I do not accept. UK stepped in it. US has stepped in it multiple times from the start of the deal. Betting on Hillary to win the general election was a poor way to maintain foreign deals.

Ugh just for the possibility for involvement of the US. More naval ships in the area means a high chance of military action. Russian ships have been using the old USSR trick of playing loose with navigation rules a few months back. The trick tests the capabilities of the vessel and training of the crew as the captain will want to avoid a collision

I do not know enough about Boris nor his platform to comment on those points.

Yah this is the obvious compromise. The problem is which one blinks first. If the UK makes the offer it lose face and Iran wins. This was really the point of Iran's actions. To demonstrate the UK is not capable nor willing to maintain it's policy. To show the world that the UK is a regional power not a global one.

Too many want their cake and eat it too.

Yah seems like a rough few years with a horrible government.

It will all start (or fail miserably) tomorrow (Wednesday) after the new PM visits Buck Palace.

We need a friggin' general election. We really do.

 

[oldbadger]

A nation that is run by god’s laws is not rational.

How can a non-Islamic nation negotiate with Allah?

Well we're not going to start a 3rd World War with Islam just to please you.

Loyal, Devoted and Professional Diplomats do all that they can to win with diplomacy. Maybe you shouldn't apply for any such positions.

 

[Notanumber]

Well we're not going to start a 3rd World War with Islam just to please you.

Loyal, Devoted and Professional Diplomats do all that they can to win with diplomacy. Maybe you shouldn't apply for any such positions.

Is a 3rd World War the only option if you do not agree with the Islamic ideology?

 

[oldbadger]

Is a 3rd World War the only option if you do not agree with the Islamic ideology?

That's easy to answer.
Because the question is for you.

Would you try to learn to speak with Islam in order to avoid conflict?

 

[Shad]

Yes. Iranian citizens. = treason.
If it's true.
Could be true.
I imagine that most countries support and reward citizens of other countries. We've found enough treachery within our own borders over the years.

Yah. I am just reminded of the Cold War which had various "agents" which were citizens spying for the other nation.

It will all start (or fail miserably) tomorrow (Wednesday) after the new PM visits Buck Palace.

We need a friggin' general election. We really do.

I am surprised there wasn't when May resigned.

 

[Notanumber]

That's easy to answer.
Because the question is for you.

Would you try to learn to speak with Islam in order to avoid conflict?

How do you learn to speak with Islam?

 

[columbus]

How do you learn to speak with Islam?

Is asking about the awkward phrasing really your best response?
Tom

 

[Notanumber]

Is asking about the awkward phrasing really your best response?
Tom

Islam does not have the equivalent of a Pope so who do you speak with?

 

[LuisDantas]

Opinions? Responses?

Sometimes it was the butler.

Particularly when he is carrying a smoking gun and is seen right in front of the dead body just after the shot was heard.

 

[LuisDantas]

Iran broke the nuclear deal 3 times in the first year when Obama made it with them in 2015. They continued to break it over and over for the next 2 years until Trump pulled out of the deal in 2018.

Iran never intended to uphold their end of the bargain. If war comes, it's because they wanted it.

Uh... sources?

Pretty much every reputable source says that you are talking bull above.

 

[oldbadger]

Yah. I am just reminded of the Cold War which had various "agents" which were citizens spying for the other nation.

I am surprised there wasn't when May resigned.

Yes.
And Yes.

Now that Boris is going to be PM the criticisms of the USA/Trump could end ........... let's see.

 

[oldbadger]

How do you learn to speak with Islam?

You asked a question.
Now you just answered your question in your way.

But that's ok, as long as you never get to represent any countries to Islamic ones. That could be conflict-high, I reckon.

 

[columbus]

Islam does not have the equivalent of a Pope so who do you speak with?

I don't want to speak for @oldbadger , so I'll ask a question.
Are you willing to put in the effort of speaking with Muslims in general, and Iranians in particular, to get a clear understanding of their views and perceptions of the history and current events?

I did, around 20 years ago, and it was rather mind blowing.
Tom