'They 'are beginning to accuse President Trump over Iran

[Notanumber]

It is weak because it only has a majority of two and no consensus on brexit, non can it rely on the upper house to support anything.
It was surprising that May could keep the wagon on the road at all. Boris is faced with the same mathematics.
The Tories depend on the Northern Irish for support, but they only give it if they are given more concessions in return.

Mrs May threw away her majority which has made life more difficult for Boris.

The Tories have people like this breathing down their necks.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Mrs May threw away her majority which has made life more difficult for Boris.

The Tories have people like this breathing down their necks.

Those Tories that fled into the arms of the Brexit party are seen as Traitors, and are only of historical interest. They lose any official status on the UK leaving Europe. If we remain, they will be seen to be the embarrassment that they are.

If a general election is called before brexit, the brexit vote will be split between the Brexit party and the Tories. but with the Brexit party gaining only a few seats. Another hung parliament is the most likely outcome. with the Lib Dems taking the Lions share of the Stay vote. And with Labor and Tories closely matched

If the election is after Brexit. The Brexit party will be irrelevant and will wither on the vine. Those fighting for a further "deal" and for close ties with Europe will still support the LIB Dems. Though Labor might be the largest party.

Even if the Tories manage to be the largest party, they may not be able to form a government.

What ever the outcome....UK plc is down the Swannee for the foreseeable future.

 

[Notanumber]

Those Tories that fled into the arms of the Brexit party are seen as Traitors, and are only of historical interest. They lose any official status on the UK leaving Europe. If we remain, they will be seen to be the embarrassment that they are.

If a general election is called before brexit, the brexit vote will be split between the Brexit party and the Tories. but with the Brexit party gaining only a few seats. Another hung parliament is the most likely outcome. with the Lib Dems taking the Lions share of the Stay vote. And with Labor and Tories closely matched

If the election is after Brexit. The Brexit party will be irrelevant and will wither on the vine. Those fighting for a further "deal" and for close ties with Europe will still support the LIB Dems. Though Labor might be the largest party.

Even if the Tories manage to be the largest party, they may not be able to form a government.

What ever the outcome....UK plc is down the Swannee for the foreseeable future.

Those Tories that stood for election on the Brexit mandate and are trying to thwart Brexit are the traitors.

If Gove had not knifed Boris in the back three years ago, we would have regained our independence by now and the Tories would have nothing to fear from the Brexit Party.

After the shambles of the May government, I have gone on record as saying that I will never vote for the Tories again but if Boris keeps this up I might be compelled to change my mind.

 

[oldbadger]

It is weak because it only has a majority of two and no consensus on brexit, non can it rely on the upper house to support anything.
It was surprising that May could keep the wagon on the road at all. Boris is faced with the same mathematics.
The Tories depend on the Northern Irish for support, but they only give it if they are given more concessions in return.

I think that answer's @Shad 's question.

I cannot see Boris achieving Brexit. Not in 100 days. Not ever.

The Political News is going to be more interesting for a time, but I feel sure that the country needs a General Election, and the Lib Dems, Greens, Brexits etc will no doubt be more successful than recently. A Coalition looks possible, but who with?

 

[Shad]

I think that answer's @Shad 's question.

Yup

I cannot see Boris achieving Brexit. Not in 100 days. Not ever.

Do the deal need only a majority of 51% or is it higher like 2/3 of the seats? Flipping the opposition, the later vote, would be very hard.

The Political News is going to be more interesting for a time, but I feel sure that the country needs a General Election, and the Lib Dems, Greens, Brexits etc will no doubt be more successful than recently. A Coalition looks possible, but who with?

Can the opposition win thus shut the deal down completely keeping the UK in the EU?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yuo.



Do the deal need only a majority of 51% or is it higher like 2/3 of the seats? Flipping the opposition, the later vote, would be very hard.



Can the opposition win thus shut the deal down completely keeping the UK in the EU?

It only take one Tory or DUP to vote against the government and they can not win.

May was unable to get any critical vote through by far more than that.
No one has changed their minds about brexit or a no deal brexit so the
mathematics of the situation are the same.
The only difference is that the Cabinet has changed... so some people who were ministers and "Had" to vote with the Government or lose their jobs, are no longer bound by that, and are now free to vote against Brexit. That is 16 more conservatives who could vote against a no deal brexit.
The new people in the cabinet are all brexiteers and would vote for it anyway.
Boris is going to find it very difficult. and the more difficult it gets, the more likely is a general election.
If the right deal with Europ could be found there is a small chance that parliament would vote for it.

But no new deal is on offer or being discussed... It would have to be agreed by all 27 Governments and the European parliament. A very difficult task. and almost impossible in the time available. They have not even agreed to have talks on a new deal.

There is not a majority to Stay either, as only the LIB Dems Greens and Scottish nationalists vote for that. but such a majority would stop it.

However a majority of MP's did vote to stay in the referendum.

 

[oldbadger]

Yuo.
Do the deal need only a majority of 51% or is it higher like 2/3 of the seats? Flipping the opposition, the later vote, would be very hard.

Can the opposition win thus shut the deal down completely keeping the UK in the EU?

The Conservative parties own MPs can shut the deal down.
If every Conservative MP together with the DUP MPs supported a 'No-Deal' Brexit then we would leave the EU on or before Oct 31st.

But many do not! Therefore it cannot happen, and I don't see where Boris and the Conservatives can go after that.

There should be a General Election imo, but if there is an election, then the Liberal-Democrats will win many seats, The Greens will win seats, Independent MPs (with no party membership) will win some, and both Labour and Conservative parties will lose seats. That means we will need a coalition, and it also means that we will stay in Europe.

President Trump is supporting Boris by informing the World that trade can increase between US and UK by 300-400% if we get clear of Europe, and the President can make a difference to Boris's efforts. If President Trump was popular here then Boris could achieve his ambition, but he is not.

It's all in the mix..... absolutely.
And Europe thinks the UK's self management is pathetic, which it is just now.

 

[Notanumber]

As a Leaver, I am more optimistic now than I have ever been since we won the Referendum.

 

[Shad]

It only take one Tory or DUP to vote against the government and they can not win.

May was unable to get any critical vote through by far more than that.
No one has changed their minds about brexit or a no deal brexit so the
mathematics of the situation are the same.
The only difference is that the Cabinet has changed... so some people who were ministers and "Had" to vote with the Government or lose their jobs, are no longer bound by that, and are now free to vote against Brexit. That is 16 more conservatives who could vote against a no deal brexit.
The new people in the cabinet are all brexiteers and would vote for it anyway.
Boris is going to find it very difficult. and the more difficult it gets, the more likely is a general election.
If the right deal with Europ could be found there is a small chance that parliament would vote for it.

But no new deal is on offer or being discussed... It would have to be agreed by all 27 Governments and the European parliament. A very difficult task. and almost impossible in the time available. They have not even agreed to have talks on a new deal.

There is not a majority to Stay either, as only the LIB Dems Greens and Scottish nationalists vote for that. but such a majority would stop it.

However a majority of MP's did vote to stay in the referendum.

Dirty politics as usual with people flipping just to protect their position.

It is safe to assume that some of the MP are voting no as there are ignoring the referendum in favour of their own views?

 

[Shad]

The Conservative parties own MPs can shut the deal down.
If every Conservative MP together with the DUP MPs supported a 'No-Deal' Brexit then we would leave the EU on or before Oct 31st.

But many do not! Therefore it cannot happen, and I don't see where Boris and the Conservatives can go after that.

There should be a General Election imo, but if there is an election, then the Liberal-Democrats will win many seats, The Greens will win seats, Independent MPs (with no party membership) will win some, and both Labour and Conservative parties will lose seats. That means we will need a coalition, and it also means that we will stay in Europe.

President Trump is supporting Boris by informing the World that trade can increase between US and UK by 300-400% if we get clear of Europe, and the President can make a difference to Boris's efforts. If President Trump was popular here then Boris could achieve his ambition, but he is not.

It's all in the mix..... absolutely.
And Europe thinks the UK's self management is pathetic, which it is just now.

Do you think Brexit (not the party) will die as MPs have no interest in pursing it and/or are against it regardless of the referendum? Seems like the deal has stalled unless there is a super majority. I mean from the Tory side.

 

[oldbadger]

Do you think Brexit (not the party) will die as MPs have no interest in pursing it and/or are against it regardless of the referendum? Seems like the deal has stalled unless there is a super majority. I mean from the Tory side.

Yes.
Over the last couple of years the people have calmed down (a bit) over immigration (which fired many of the Brexiteers) and they have slowly taken in how Brexit is going to cost them personally.

I voted for Brexit, but the Remainers didn't figure out how to tell us about the features and benefits of remaining. We've been learning about that from journalism, mainly.

 

[Shad]

Yes.
Over the last couple of years the people have calmed down (a bit) over immigration (which fired many of the Brexiteers) and they have slowly taken in how Brexit is going to cost them personally.

I voted for Brexit, but the Remainers didn't figure out how to tell us about the features and benefits of remaining. We've been learning about that from journalism, mainly.

What about the government side flip/flopping?

 

[oldbadger]

What about the government side flip/flopping?

Indeed.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Dirty politics as usual with people flipping just to protect their position.

It is safe to assume that some of the MP are voting no as there are ignoring the referendum in favour of their own views?

As MP.s that is their right. The referendum is advisory not binding. MP,s are not delegates.. however if you vote against the wishes of your constituency you risk your re-election. Of course many constituencies did vote to remain.

Like most things it is not over till it is over.

 

[Shad]

As MP.s that is their right. The referendum is advisory not binding. MP,s are not delegates.. however if you vote against the wishes of your constituency you risk your re-election. Of course many constituencies did vote to remain.

Like most things it is not over till it is over.

So the deal can be stalled until enough of the population is remain or not longer voting for leave candidates. Very shady.

Wasn't the referendum a slim majority leave based only 1/3 of the voter base taking part in general?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So the deal can be stalled until enough of the population is remain or not longer voting for leave candidates. Very shady.

Wasn't the referendum a slim majority leave based only 1/3 of the voter base taking part in general?

Yes the vote was fairly good for the UK. But far less than a majority of the population. The people living abroad were excluded. Most of whom would have voted to stay.

 

[Shad]

Yes the vote was fairly good for the UK. But far less than a majority of the population. The people living abroad were excluded. Most of whom would have voted to stay.

Well having only a portion of population vote isn't good in my view. It show apathy to the larger political situation in a nation. This applies to other nations with elected reps.