There are no polytheists in the West.

[Sir Doom]

It would be most accurate to say that there are warring desires inside me. Though the desire that has won out so far is the one to keep the faith and do what I think I'm called to do.

The underlined portion is identical to what you accuse Western polytheists of doing. See? Your faith is not in some special category other than the fact that it is yours and no one else's. You cannot add credit to your faith by discrediting someone else's faith. If you want to have any hope of convincing me that your OP is anything more than self-gratification and back-patting, you'll have to respond to every counter-point I've made and not try and reword this one thing over and over ignoring all the other valid remarks.

 

[no-body]

I hope judging others for their beliefs makes you feel very superior and banishes your deep insecurities for your own.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

hehehe....seriously though. I really don't believe 98% of the people in the West who claim to practice this neo-pagan/polytheistic thing truly treat their "gods" as actual gods.

And I really don't think you should speak for other people concerning their beliefs. You're being disrespectful and rude at best.

 

[Riverwolf]

They're all a bunch of rationalists and relativists dressed up in fancy robes



hehehe....seriously though. I really don't believe 98% of the people in the West who claim to practice this neo-pagan/polytheistic thing truly treat their "gods" as actual gods. What is a "god"? First and foremost, it's what people trust most in this world. It's who your HOPE is in. Not who you recite chants to or who you wave magic wands for. For the people in the West, from what I can see, their polytheistic "gods" function more like advisors than anything else. They pick the "gods" they'll "worship" based on who's teachings strike their fancy. As long as their "god" tells them what they want to hear they're more than willing to say "praise you" or whatever they say. As soon as they start infringing on what people really deep down want to do with their lives it "bye-bye". That's worship/trust of the one's self, nothing more. The ancients were true polytheists in the sense that all their hope was in their gods to deliver them in battle, send rain for the crops, etc. At best, the "gods" of such people are their pals, not their true superiors

I must belong to that 2%, because I'm a polytheist in every sense of the word. I don't pray for rain, but I do believe in the existence of many Gods, even of Gods I have little or no respect for. Therefore, I'm a polytheist.

I'll wager the same is true for most polytheists around the world.

 

[tumbleweed41]

The ancients were true polytheists in the sense that all their hope was in their gods to deliver them in battle, send rain for the crops, etc. At best, the "gods" of such people are their pals, not their true superiors

Just for clarification;

Psalms is full of prayers and songs glorifying Yahweh for victories in battle. And every Israeli and Judean king and warlord prayed to Yahweh for victory.

Was Yahweh their pal?

Elijah prayed for rain.

Was Yahweh his pal?


Do you see the irony yet?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Just for clarification;

Psalms is full of prayers and songs glorifying Yahweh for victories in battle. And every Israeli and Judean king and warlord prayed to Yahweh for victory.

Was Yahweh their pal?

Elijah prayed for rain.

Was Yahweh his pal?


Do you see the irony yet?

My point is that Christianity is different. Yes, you're illustrating examples of how Yahweh DEMANDS to be trusted even in the most seemingly hopeless circumstances. Yahweh acts as a true superior to his followers. When he calls people to do something, he's not asking for volunteers. He's giving an order. This is precisely what it means to have a god/God. When I look at polytheists in the West, I don't see servants of the gods. At most, I see pals

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My point is that Christianity is different. Yes, you're illustrating examples of how Yahweh DEMANDS to be trusted even in the most seemingly hopeless circumstances. Yahweh acts as a true superior to his followers. When he calls people to do something, he's not asking for volunteers. He's giving an order. This is precisely what it means to have a god/God. When I look at polytheists in the West, I don't see servants of the gods. At most, I see pals

"Pals"... is that like a "personal relationship"?

 

[Iti oj]

"Pals"... is that like a "personal relationship"?

And that's what we call win. You and sir doom have well good job guys

 

[-Peacemaker-]

"Pals"... is that like a "personal relationship"?

Absolutely. I believe in spiritual forces outside of Yahweh. I have little doubt that polytheists are tapping into some sort of spiritual entity. I have little doubt that a relationship exists. What we're talking about is the nature of that relationship. Some relationships are between a superior and a subordinate, others are not.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The underlined portion is identical to what you accuse Western polytheists of doing. See? Your faith is not in some special category other than the fact that it is yours and no one else's. You cannot add credit to your faith by discrediting someone else's faith. If you want to have any hope of convincing me that your OP is anything more than self-gratification and back-patting, you'll have to respond to every counter-point I've made and not try and reword this one thing over and over ignoring all the other valid remarks.

Obviously we all put our faith/trust in something. This thread is about WHO or WHAT that faith is truly in. Believing that a certain spiritual entity exists is a long was from actually putting your faith/trust in that entity. This is not about what "gods" we talk to or have a relationship with. This is about who or what we truly trust most. Is our faith/trust in ourselves or it in something else? The answer to that question tells us who our "god/God" really is.

 

[no-body]

Absolutely. I believe in spiritual forces outside of Yahweh. I have little doubt that polytheists are tapping into some sort of spiritual entity. I have little doubt that a relationship exists. What we're talking about is the nature of that relationship. Some relationships are between a superior and a subordinate, others are not.

Why are you pussyfooting around? Just use the word "demons" already.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Why are you pussyfooting around? Just use the word "demons" already.

For this thread it's irrelevant who I think they are. I'm not trying to make a statement on whether or not I believe one has put their faith in a false god though my biases may come through from time to time. This thread is about determing who our god actually is.

 

[Riverwolf]

My point is that Christianity is different. Yes, you're illustrating examples of how Yahweh DEMANDS to be trusted even in the most seemingly hopeless circumstances. Yahweh acts as a true superior to his followers. When he calls people to do something, he's not asking for volunteers. He's giving an order. This is precisely what it means to have a god/God. When I look at polytheists in the West, I don't see servants of the gods. At most, I see pals

Then why are so many Gods referred to as Kings?

 

[Riverwolf]

For this thread it's irrelevant who I think they are. I'm not trying to make a statement on whether or not I believe one has put their faith in a false god though my biases may come through from time to time. This thread is about determing who our god actually is.

I certainly don't want anything to do with Gods who are so egotistical as to think themselves as slave-masters and us their robots. In Puranic Mythology, Gods who do so are typically humiliated somehow.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

This thread is about determing who our god actually is.

Silly me, there I was thinking that this thread was about Polytheism in the western world...

A fair discussion of which by the way would mention that in the region known as the 'west' polytheism and various forms of primal theistic traditions (commonly grouped under the absurd term 'pagan religions' although a not insubstantial number of those traditions would not in fact be called religions by most common definitions of the term) were extremely common, until the arrival of Europeans who used Christianity as a means by which to establish hegemonic subjugation of the aboriginals of whatever region they wanted to control.

I would point out that many of these traditions incorporated extremely harsh controls on their populace to the extent that in some, the clergy were akin to the rulers even demi-god like beings (though this is far from a blanket statement since they were so varied). In this respect it was Christianity that benefited from the 'bye bye' attitude you mentioned as people left to the easier worship of the trinity gods compared to the more demanding (and more strictly punished - by their new secular rulers) worship of their own gods.

I completely agree though... people do seem to recognise the 'legitimacy' of god(s) whom best match up to their own values and who promise to deliver on their hopes.

 

[Me Myself]

Absolutely. I believe in spiritual forces outside of Yahweh. I have little doubt that polytheists are tapping into some sort of spiritual entity. I have little doubt that a relationship exists. What we're talking about is the nature of that relationship. Some relationships are between a superior and a subordinate, others are not.

If God is better than me, then he must serve me.

When I serve others, I am better.

Jesus showed us that. The best of the group is not the one who gives commands, but the one who loves and serves.

That´s why my God is great in the kingdom of heavens, be it in his form of Jesus, Shiva, Ganesh, Lakshimi, Krishna or you pick it

If a God is truly great, then he is kind and loving, and doesn´t act like a tyrant in the way the God of the armies does.

 

[painted wolf]

Christians are far more polytheistic than I am... I don't pretend that 3=1.

Plus, didn't Jesus say something about motes and logs.... It's interesting how much of his sermonizing was about humility. It seems to have been the lesson that he knew was needed most among his followers.

wa:do

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Absolutely.

You realize that I was making an allusion to how many Christians describe themselves as in "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ", don't you?

I believe in spiritual forces outside of Yahweh. I have little doubt that polytheists are tapping into some sort of spiritual entity. I have little doubt that a relationship exists. What we're talking about is the nature of that relationship. Some relationships are between a superior and a subordinate, others are not.

In a relationship where one person washes the feet of the other, who is the superior and who is the subordinate?

 

[Reverend Rick]

In my fathers house there are many mansions

This can't be true if King is right about all things religious. Hell on the other hand must be huge in King's world.

Here is the thing Jungle Man, if you are right and everyone else is so wrong, why on earth would you gloat about it? Is that the Christian thing to do? Really?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

You realize that I was making an allusion to how many Christians describe themselves as in "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ", don't you?

Of course I did. I was trying to show you that your allusion didn't have much relevence in this discussion.

In a relationship where one person washes the feet of the other, who is the superior and who is the subordinate?

Yes, and that's the beauty of what Jesus introduced

Matthew 23:11 "The greatest among you will be your servant."