You're getting sidetracked by things that aren't important like debating whether "polytheists" actually exist. I just wanted to make an eye grabbing thread title. The point of the thread was to talk about concepts of god/God that ACTUALLY MATTER in terms of how we live our lives
That was the topic of the title lol, and who says an "advisor" concept of a god doesn't matter? That kind of thing can be life-changing.
I think part of what happens as well is that when Neopagans present themselves to outsiders, they gloss over many of the more mystical and occult elements. For one, it's difficult for outsiders with a radically different worldview to understand, so it requires a lot of explaining. For two, our culture at large is intolerant of these things, and speaking of them openly sometimes isn't a wise idea.
King of the Jungle, this is probably why you seem to think it's just a bit' of occult elements mixed into secularism. I've found it's hard to get the "occult", whether LHP, NeoPagan, New Age, or whatever, to give exact details on things. They don't want to start trouble. I can tell you that from personal experience being open to the exact details of your faith is a huge gateway to people not just misunderstanding you and vilifying you for how they falsely interpret what you say, but as well to persecution and a molouge of bigotry. Most people have already made-up their mind and anything you say to them about specifics will convince them you are evil.
Case in point, I have burned Bibles before. If I told a Christian I have done that, they will most likely assume:
A) I did it (or told them) for "attention", as if somehow in the privacy of my own home I was looking for something to "pay attention", must of been my dog!
B) That I am evil and hate anything that is Holy and so do that.
C) Have a lot of anger and am defining myself negatively by something that
I'm not, and that since it destroys something in such a taboo way that it is unhealthy.
C is most common among all groups, but even that is failing to understand what the concept of renouncing, desecration, ect ect means in the context of not just the Left Hand Path, but all religion. It's more about purifying and "ridding" yourself of something by crossing a line that would effectively cut you off emotionally, or spiritually, from something that you once were, or that you once were emotionally attached to. A non-religious example would be burning all the love letters of an ex-girlfriend you had a really bad break-up over, which would symbolically "burn" the emotional attachment you had to her, or at least help with that by distancing yourself from it.
Heck, even some Christian churches have you renounce certain things and other religions have you do this or that. I know of how some Christian missionaries will have converted locals effectively desecrate and formally renounce their specific religion after getting saved. It's not as uncommon as people seem to think, they just don't notice it in concepts and situations that are typical in their lives. Most of us do it at some point in our lives.
However this is just ONE example, and if you fully understand what I'm saying, that burning Bibles is not about hate but about letting go, then imagine that many times over for every small practice or piece of theology, and consider how badly someone could misunderstand EVERYTHING we said if we told them of our mystical/magickal/religious practices or concepts.
As I told Me Myself, talking about who or what is worthy of being called "god" is a waste of time. Everyone has their own definition that they probably wouldn't change for anything in the world. At the end of the day it's irrelevant and is bound to just create strife. I was going for eyecatching when I designed the thread title and how I framed the premise. It ended up backfiring as everyone got all offended. For that I apologize. The true purpose is to talk about definitions of "god" that are actually relevant to our lives in a meaningful way. The reality is that there is nothing more relevant to our lives in this world than the question of what we trust, depend, and have faith in the most. It guides our every step. Who or what is really guiding your steps?
In reality, he could only say that the bible or the commandment guides his steps.
He technically cannot say god guides his steps anymore anyone can say any god guides his/her steps.
I mean, he trusts the bible to be the word of God. So technically speaking, the bible guides his steps. But then again, he trusts his own trust on the bible, so undeniably, he must trust himself first to be able to trust in anything else.
So he´d be guiding himself to choose the bible as a guide because HE decided that that is what Gods wants. Because that is what HE thinks.
I've noticed this in a lot of Christians, it's as if they follow that version of The Christian Bible interpretation and not Jesus/Yahweh himself, who may or may not reveal something to them personally. It's as if they trust some book more than they trust the direct relationship with a god. It's perplexing to me that they think a fallible mind could even correctly interpret a supposedly infallible document. And by many of their reasoning of the "poisoned watermelon" analogy of X out of Y melons being poisoned in a field, you should either accept all or none of The Christian Bible least saying "some is false" opens you to danger. So by that reasoning anything that a fallible mind interprets is all false.
So even if all that canon is true, it's very likely that ALL of the modern churches have large sections of false doctrines. Just another reason to have an interactive god, and not a book, as that which relays it directly to you. However there are values in books, and I've taken up writing my own, but it can be just as limiting as it is helpful if you take to using the book as opposed to the god as the ultimate authority.
I've said it before in this thread but the "gods" of self described polytheists in this thread are best described as advisors rather than rulers. When their "god" say "jump", they don't ask "how high?". They say "let me think about it a bit so I can decide whether or not I agree or disagree with the wisdom of jumping". That's ultimately self reliance. The Christian is tasked with not relying on his own understanding. He's tasked with jumping whether he sees the sense in it or not and trusting it's the best thing. From what I gather from the self described polytheists in this thread, such a concept is laughable in their eyes.
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding"
If Ha-Satan says "jump", I'd wonder why I was jumping in the safety of my own home. However, jokes aside, if Ha-Satan tells me to do something, I first run it against how rational or logical that idea sounds in my current situation because it may not really be him but my wishful thinking that it is him.
At one point I thought Ha-Satan told me to move out of the area. That would of been the stupidest idea considering all the factors, and so I didn't. Later I realized I belonged here and didn't know if his 'order' was a bluff or not, or if I was just going crazy at the time. I'm still not sure, however I think that the currents of my destiny pushed me in that direction so that I could be at the right place and time at a latter date. Does this make Ha-Satan a puppet master? Most definitely so, as while I make my own decisions he can predict to a great accuracy what I will do, and so is probably planning accordingly that I keep following up with meeting my own will, least he put some motivation, in the form of opposition, to speed things up again.
Such is the nature of a testing god, I think that Ha-Satan wants me to succeed in my goals, as if he helps me do so, it gives credit to him and brings us both glory. It's a symbiotic relationship. I also want to, for both him and the lives of other Satanists, be able to one day be in a position to change attitudes about Satanists, and perhaps help others find the appropriate path for them, least they fall victim to the dogma of specific but unnamed Satanic organizations that do more harm than good.
For example I've twice now been approached by people wanting help and one was looking for Theistic Luciferianism and the other for Theistic Satanism, but neither time did I direct them to MY version of Satanism because it was glaringly obvious that my path was not their path. The feeling of helping them was good, and I liked that I could have a positive influence on them in that way. Doing this brings great glory to Satan, as well as my own fame. Like I said, it's not about blindly listening to a god, but about a mutually beneficial relationship.
Oh, also if Lilith, one of my lesser gods I revere, said "jump", I would just jump. If Lilith said to do this or that, I would just do it, granted I was sure it was her. I really wouldn't question it, even if she wanted me to do something possibly illegal, because... well, let's just say that sex is a very powerful force, and not so-much that I am afraid of her, but more that I would feel compelled to do what she said regardless. :bow: While I'm pretty sure I'm on her good side and have always acknowledged her in the opening of rituals and worked some with her kin, I wouldn't want to be on her bad side and I've done at least one invocation explicitly directed at her about certain affairs involving an old friend [daemon actually].
(Unfortunately it was only partially successful because of an error on my end).
