Theists: What would a godless universe look like?

[ChieftheCef]

Humans will never leave. Mwahahaaa.

I will say that as a possibility could happen but I do not believe it will happen

 

[Little Dragon]

I will say that as a possibility could happen but I do not believe it will happen

It is a strong possibility, humanity has reached a pivotal time, make or break.

 

[ChieftheCef]

It is a strong possibility, humanity has reached a pivotal time, make or break.

There have been plenty of times that has been. Ecological disaster weens out the weak and thus allows more strong relationships to the environment become, thus enhappying the world more.

 

[DNB]

I am not trying to be terribly rude here, but consider your statement from the point of view of the atheist (or perhaps the Jew, the Muslim, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, etc..)...

One of the things we understand absolutely least about your Christian God is the notion that this non-human being, having created humans only to become dismayed with how they turned out, had himself turned into a human so he could be sacrificied to himself to appease himself. To so many of us, this just doesn't speak to "wisdom, holiness, justice or mercy." Wrath, maybe, but wrath with little purpose. And to us, we recognize this truth -- the "wrath" that would commit a human being, with all his limitations, to an eternity of torture is very misplaced. It is that person, much more than the "deserving" that really need "mercy," which is otherwise misspent.

Just a polite correction, please, Jesus Christ is not God, never was, and never will be - only the father is God. But I understand that mainstream Christianity professes the trinity, so i can appreciate your error. Thus, the Atonement that you described does not comport with the wisdom of God, although you are extremely correct in stating how utterly absurd that it is according to trinitarian theology.

Most of the recounting of history in the Bible is meant to have man appreciate his willful propensity to defiance and contempt for his Maker, of which I am extremely guilty of myself. God's condemnation of man is thoroughly justified, so that what becomes outstanding when one reads Scripture is His mercy and grace.

As far as hell is concerned, clearly one does not torture one with corporeal punishment for crimes of the heart - all sin stems from wicked motives, not evil hands or feet. Therefore, it is the sinner himself who's conscience is burning in hell for being rejected from something that was so graciously offered, that is inflicting his pain. God is not a sadist - men chose to defy Him, but now cannot handle the consequence of being ostracized from His Kingdom.
They are punishing themselves.

 

[DNB]

Yet you offer no rebuttal - just dismissal with the wave of a hand.

unbelievable, you accuse me of not offering an explanation, as you post my explanation directly below your first statement. How did you manage that (rhetorical - I already know)

"Atheists are perverse and corrupt: they show no gratitude or humility towards their maker, consider themselves to be righteous ...in the most hypocritical and oblivious manner, are judgmental, blind as bats, and refuse to believe in God because the prefer to live corrupt lives with no accountability."

"Judging by your last few posts, I'm actually perceiving something much more perversely innate, than your utter oblivion and profound misconception of the Christian faith."

"Homosexuality is a vile and perverse lifestyle, and all those who practice it, and equally those who either condone or endorse it, have nothing more than a depraved and corrupt mentality."

Ahhh dude, you left out the best part, about the flags.

Your intolerant religion would have governments harm such people. Go ahead and hire a gay prostitute and smoke pot if you like. There is no harm there. The harm is the religion that teaches you that such things should lead to punishment to appease an imagined, bigoted god. More fruit from the rotten tree.

How do you atheists manage to remain so oblivious to the harm of sin???? Or is it your own perverse mind that perceives iniquity as righteousness?

What would a religionless world like? For one thing, you would be a kinder and more tolerant person.

Nothing worse than one who accuses someone of being wicked for denouncing wickedness - the tactics of the devil - how deceitful and corrupt.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Just a polite correction, please, Jesus Christ is not God, never was, and never will be - only the father is God. But I understand that mainstream Christianity professes the trinity, so i can appreciate your error. Thus, the Atonement that you described does not comport with the wisdom of God, although you are extremely correct in stating how utterly absurd that it is according to trinitarian theology.

Most of the recounting of history in the Bible is meant to have man appreciate his willful propensity to defiance and contempt for his Maker, of which I am extremely guilty of myself. God's condemnation of man is thoroughly justified, so that what becomes outstanding when one reads Scripture is His mercy and grace.

As far as hell is concerned, clearly one does not torture one with corporeal punishment for crimes of the heart - all sin stems from wicked motives, not evil hands or feet. Therefore, it is the sinner himself who's conscience is burning in hell for being rejected from something that was so graciously offered, that is inflicting his pain. God is not a sadist - men chose to defy Him, but now cannot handle the consequence of being ostracized from His Kingdom.
They are punishing themselves.

Uh, huh. Yet, as you say, mainstream Christianity (79% of all Christians on earth) disagree with you, which of course makes them wrong, not you.

Some of us, it might surprise you to learn, think it's all of you.

 

[DNB]

What an absolutely vile and -- let me say it without regret -- unChristian thing to say. I want to say so much more, but my anger makes me aware that I would have to say things the forum does not allow.

And let me also point out that you have made a bald, flat statement about a very large group of human beings, probably, all added up, about a billion of them -- and those who "condone or endorse" (their families and friends) numbering billions more. You did not say "in my opinion." You said, in as factual a style as you were able, that those billion people are "vile, perverse, depraved and corrupt."

What I think about you, I will keep to myself. Your statements, however, are vile and totally unChristian.

(You might consider what Pope Francis himself said, "who am I to judge?")

I sin all the time, in the most vile and perverse ways. I feel that I am wretched and that I am in dire need of a saviour, one who loves his neighbour as himself, and loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul.

The difference between you and I, and the billions of others that you mentioned, is that first, I recognize something evil when I see it, and two, i admit that I'm guilty of it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I sin all the time, in the most vile and perverse ways. I feel that I am wretched and that I am in dire need of a saviour, one who loves his neighbour as himself, and loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul.

The difference between you and I, and the billions of others that you mentioned, is that first, I recognize something evil when I see it, and two, i admit that I'm guilty of it.

Well, there's a difference between you and I. When I recognize I've done wrong, first I try to make amends, then I try to never do that again. Seems to me that works better for all, down here in the only world I inhabit.

 

[DNB]

Your bias means nothing. Your so called moral capacity is an abstract concept, as subjective as your point of view. You can deem what you like, I do not care what you think. Your opinions are just whiny and bitter. Your recent replies have been most petulant.

Who cares what you assert? Do you have proof?

I'm trying to help you, for crying out loud.

 

[DNB]

Uh, huh. Yet, as you say, mainstream Christianity (79% of all Christians on earth) disagree with you, which of course makes them wrong, not you.

Some of us, it might surprise you to learn, think it's all of you.

Many are called, but only a few are chosen.

 

[DNB]

Well, there's a difference between you and I. When I recognize I've done wrong, first I try to make amends, then I try to never do that again. Seems to me that works better for all, down here in the only world I inhabit.

And there's the caveat: when you recognize your sin - how well is your perception of unrighteousness - utterly distorted, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm trying to help you, for crying out loud.

Are you really? Or are you trying to proselytize?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Many are called, but only a few are chosen.

And you think that says something special and wonderful about your God? I do not. As I said, mercy is wasted on those that do not need it.

And there's the caveat: when you recognize your sin - how well is your perception of unrighteousness - utterly distorted, as far as I am concerned.

And that is why I so detest your position. The whole business of "righteousness" (or un-) is something most especially used by religious bigots to separate and demean everyone who doesn't happen to have been indoctrinated into their particular brand of absolute truth.

Intelligent people know that there is no such thing as absolute truth. Religious bigots are -- in my personal opinion -- too often those who are willing to invoke "righteousness" to justify unjust and hateful attitudes and actions against others.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And there's the caveat: when you recognize your sin - how well is your perception of unrighteousness - utterly distorted, as far as I am concerned.

When are you going to respond to my post #770?

 

[Little Dragon]

I sin all the time, in the most vile and perverse ways. I feel that I am wretched and that I am in dire need of a saviour, one who loves his neighbour as himself, and loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul.

You do you.

 

[Little Dragon]

I'm trying to help you, for crying out loud.

Help me? How? I am beyond saving baby.

 

[Little Dragon]

God is not a sadist - men chose to defy Him, but now cannot handle the consequence of being ostracized from His Kingdom.
They are punishing themselves.

I will cope. I don't fancy the idea of a perpetual existence in a kingdom full of self loathing puritans. I'd rather be in hell dancing with the devil. Butt naked.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Help me? How? I am beyond saving baby.

What do you think you should be saved from? I can't think of anything for myself.

 

[Little Dragon]

What do you think you should be saved from? I can't think of anything for myself.

I am not sure. I guess he means anything fun.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am not sure. I guess he means anything fun.

No, I think we both know what he means -- he wants to be saved from 1) dying and 2) being judged for who he really is. I suspect that both are terrifying for him, but the second much more so than the first.

The idea of non-existence seems to be just about impossible for humans -- "how is it possible that I will not exist, that there might be no me?" As Mark Twain said (I paraphrase) "I was dead for millions of years before I was born, and it didn't inconvenience me a bit." I can look back through my memories and I can indeed come to a place where there was no me. I have no memory of Queen Victoria because I didn't exist then -- but it wasn't painful, didn't bother me, I wasn't bored, in pain, being punished -- nothing at all. Just no me.

Likewise, I've been made to disappear completely while surgeons have cut open my body and removed bits (including from my spine), and again, I didn't suffer at all. Anaesthetics shut my brain down, and when that happened, there simple was no "me" -- "I" was not there! So when my brain turns off for the last time, why would I expect anything other than what I experienced either before I had a brain, or when chemicals turned it off?

@DNB can't bring himself to contemplate these notions.