The world with no absolute good or evil

[Quagmire]

It is a concept that I would like to discuss with you all.

If we have a world where good and evil (or Love and Hate) are not absolutely defined, and that became the widely accepted belief among all the population, would schizophrenia occur wide spread?

To suggest an example, suppose there is a child raised in an isolated home, constantly exposed to role reversal, and role imagery. A world where justice and injustice are not discernible because it is never consistent. A world where one day he felt loved (defined as euphoric experience) and the next day from the same people hated (defined as total rejection).

Sounds like a typical dysfunctional family to me. Not kidding.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I personally don't believe that there is absolute good or evil in the world.

That is delusional to me

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Sounds like a typical dysfunctional family to me. Not kidding.

I don't disagree, to some degree. However, it is not typical to keep a kid isolated from the outside world, and that is what I suggested in my example.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

That is delusional to me

It could very well be. :sad:

 

[Tiapan]

The beauty of the world is that almost nothing is black and white. Even seemingly obvious conclusions have exceptions and a gray area. War, capital punishment, abortion, drug use, gun ownership are not Black and white are all gray areas. There are good arguments both ways.

Next you seem to infer schizophrenia is he result of environmental influences like eg depression, rather than organic in origin. I am not sure I agree, confusion over ones situation is not the same as medically diagnosed schizophrenia. Although many environmental stimuli can precipitate the pre existing illness. Cannabis in the media causes schizophrenia, this is false, scientifically it could be said to precipitate the existing disease in a few, but cause it NO.

Part of the problem is that for simplicity and our parents ignorance, the world is described as black and white. As we mature we begin to observe and asimmilate the realize that it is usually gray. This is a major problem with religion which tends to be rather dogmatic in this area.

Cheers

 

[linwood]

Agreed, but similar to gravity there are many takes on what exactly it is, but we all agree it exists as something.

You are mistaken.

We do not all agree that there exists absolute evil and absolute good.

I find the concept ridiculous.

Part of the problem is that for simplicity and our parents ignorance, the world is described as black and white. As we mature we begin to observe and asimmilate the realize that it is usually gray. This is a major problem with religion which tends to be rather dogmatic in this area.

Don`t you mean that "SOME" of us mature and realise that the world is grey?
It`s obvious to me that not everyone comes to this conclusion.

 

[zenzero]

Friend itwillend,

I don't appreciate you changing my name, but I guess that's fare game.

Sorry if unknowingly hurt your sentiments. It happened unconsciously.

You have made an incorrect assumption. I didn't say a world with NO evil and good, I said absolute good and evil.

You are right was totally unconscious at the time of responding.

NOW, having read the OP once again state that since when a person walks on the razors edge at all times he becomes a master and masters are not affected by good and evil they go beyond it.
Yes, initially there will be novices who will suffer such afflictions of the mind but slowly everyone will master it as it will be the WAY of life and survival is always supreme.

Love & rgds

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I find the concept ridiculous.

So did Hitler

 

[Quagmire]

I don't disagree, to some degree. However, it is not typical to keep a kid isolated from the outside world, and that is what I suggested in my example.

If someone were raised in a completely isolated environment where ethical inconsistency and contradiction were the norm, conflicting ideologies wouldn't equate to internal conflict. Contradiction would seem natural.

 

[Erebus]

1.I do not see how this is different than my example of a child being exposed to what I suggested. In fact research supports what I am suggesting. I think you might be giving to much credit to the human mind under twisted circumstances.

2.Way to understated, I might meet you in the middle with personality disorder.

3.How about we discuss the specific example I gave, you referenced earlier they might "mess people up", but that doesn't tell me much.

1. Yes I'll give you that one, if the range of emotions displayed in a family is extreme enough to incorporate physical beatings etc it is entirely possible that a child would develop schizophrenia. I don't believe that blurred concepts of good and evil etc would actually cause this sort of behaviour, but if we argue that it did, then schizophrenia is a possible (but by no means inevitable) outcome. Perhaps, I am being too optimistic in regards to the strength of the human mind, but I don't think the majority of people would be completely ground down by such situations to the point where schizophrenia was triggered.

2. I don't think this is an understatement, manic depression can be just as serious (if not more) than schizophrenia. The reason I suggested manic depression over schizophrenia is simply because manic depression seems the more likely outcome of an emotionally extreme background than schizophrenia. Schizophrenia afterall would require fairly severe hallucinations (typically auditory AND visual in England) to qualify, which would seem like too severe an emotional reaction to a broken home in my eyes.

3. People can develop all kinds of fragments of neurotic disorders from their backgrounds, as well as some traits of psychotic disorders. This soup of fragments of disorders doesn't qualify a person as "psychotic" or "neurotic" but it does serve to create a very disturbed and eccentric individual. I would expect a person with a background like the one you suggested to be highly unpredictable and unstable in their emotions (perhaps even going as far as to be diagnosed manic depressive) but for the most part I think people would overcome the worst effects of such an upbringing.

At the end of the day, a person's reaction to psychological trauma depends greatly upon what they are like as an individual. Some people would probably become psychotic in the world you suggested, others would benefit from it. "Mass schizophrenia" however, sounds very unlikely to me regardless of the situation.

 

[linwood]

So did Hitler

Citation?
Not that it`s relevant whatsoever to your own OP.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

If someone were raised in a completely isolated environment where ethical inconsistency and contradiction were the norm, conflicting ideologies wouldn't equate to internal conflict. Contradiction would seem natural.

Ah but, then allow that grown kid to be exposed to the outside world as an adult and you will have fireworks

 

[Just_me_Mike]

If someone were raised in a completely isolated environment where ethical inconsistency and contradiction were the norm, conflicting ideologies wouldn't equate to internal conflict. Contradiction would seem natural.

1. Yes I'll give you that one, if the range of emotions displayed in a family is extreme enough to incorporate physical beatings etc it is entirely possible that a child would develop schizophrenia. I don't believe that blurred concepts of good and evil etc would actually cause this sort of behaviour, but if we argue that it did, then schizophrenia is a possible (but by no means inevitable) outcome. Perhaps, I am being too optimistic in regards to the strength of the human mind, but I don't think the majority of people would be completely ground down by such situations to the point where schizophrenia was triggered.

2. I don't think this is an understatement, manic depression can be just as serious (if not more) than schizophrenia. The reason I suggested manic depression over schizophrenia is simply because manic depression seems the more likely outcome of an emotionally extreme background than schizophrenia. Schizophrenia afterall would require fairly severe hallucinations (typically auditory AND visual in England) to qualify, which would seem like too severe an emotional reaction to a broken home in my eyes.

3. People can develop all kinds of fragments of neurotic disorders from their backgrounds, as well as some traits of psychotic disorders. This soup of fragments of disorders doesn't qualify a person as "psychotic" or "neurotic" but it does serve to create a very disturbed and eccentric individual. I would expect a person with a background like the one you suggested to be highly unpredictable and unstable in their emotions (perhaps even going as far as to be diagnosed manic depressive) but for the most part I think people would overcome the worst effects of such an upbringing.

At the end of the day, a person's reaction to psychological trauma depends greatly upon what they are like as an individual. Some people would probably become psychotic in the world you suggested, others would benefit from it. "Mass schizophrenia" however, sounds very unlikely to me regardless of the situation.

In hinds sight reflecting on these posts, it seems the most damage would not be while the child is in the house being raised, but most likely if the grown child left the house and faced the real world. I think that is when "all hell" could break loose, not inevitable but highly probable.

I suspect what probably happens, is a person like this has "worlds" in their head, and then faces reality out there, and is completely lost. Eventually they escape to the comforts of their "worlds". Like a safe zone. In that sense it would be delusions and hallucinations to feel normal or safe.

Anyway great posts, thank you.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Citation?
Not that it`s relevant whatsoever to your own OP.

Hey Linwood, I will retract my post. It is not worth getting into the philosophies and actions of Hitler to prove a point. So, I will give this to you, because you are right it is not relevant to the post.

 

[Erebus]

Anyway great posts, thank you.

Thankyou, I do my best

 

[linwood]

Hey Linwood, I will retract my post. It is not worth getting into the philosophies and actions of Hitler to prove a point. So, I will give this to you, because you are right it is not relevant to the post.

In other words you didn`t know what you were taling about.

Hitler did believe in absolute evil.

He considered the Jews as such.

So I guess maybe your statement does prove a point.
A point exactly opposing the point you were trying to make.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

I see this as no problem whatsoever because truth is relative, and changes over time!

I quote the Baha'i scriptures:

"Such an existence is a contingent and not an absolute existence, inasmuch as the former is preceded by a cause, whilst the latter is independent thereof.

"Absolute existence is strictly confined to God, exalted be His glory. Well is it with them that apprehend this truth."

—(Gleanings, page 157)

Best!

Bruce