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Featured The Word Became Flesh

Discussion in 'Monotheism' started by rrobs, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    You read it wrong. You gave me a great line. You are correct. That post bob absolutely was not directed at you but others. No i stand firm and say we have made google our new god. You are most correct. I just used examples how you are correct is all. I am sorry you read me incorrectly. My fault should have warned ya!!!
     
  2. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    I did misunderstand, but now I see what you were saying. I was being facetious in calling google the god of knowledge, although that does seem to be exactly how many see it.

    While something like google may start out innocent enough, I can certainly see how having one source for all knowledge could lead to problems in the future, especially when it comes to things like morals or politics. If society ever relies completely on google for answers in those realms, look out!
     
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  3. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    And i was pointing out you are far more correct than you realize. I might say what i wrote to some threads get replies back like " We dont call it the golden calf we dont worship it, dont be stupid with your tricky word saLad nonsense." thats an underlaying state of many if my discussions. Like talking to a zombie. The living dead.

    In fact thats for many about how and all they understand. Nothing more at all. Smart but really lacking any moment to stop for a second and actually think. Totally automatic. The have knowledge a mountain and near zero self awareness of anything but them selves. Its getting worse. The new printing press is driving it. We are becoming mad. I see lots of mad people are that are mad everywhere. They are mad about this mad about that.
     
    #23 David T, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:05 PM
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 1:15 PM
  4. leov

    leov Active Member
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    The verse says that faith - God’s contact that is persuading - is coming from us listening to Christ within your inner hearing (not from altar preaching which may be be direct baby food understanding).
     
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  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    I consider that everything emanates from Christ and Christ emanates from God.

    Thus I see the Messengers emanate from the Holy Spirit and this is the story of the virgin birth. Though Jesus is born from the womb, they are born of the Holy Spirit, the Word, the Cause.

    All Messengers are thus born. Born of a mother, but they were 'Christ', Annointed by God of the Holy Spirit.

    It is that Word, that is the Cause. The Holy Spirit emanates all levels of Spirit below, which in turn are 'The Spirit of Faith', our connection with the 'Holy Spirit', the 'Human Spirit', the ability of choice, the Animal Spirit and the Vegetable Spirit.

    Great topic to explore.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes, Jesus was ' in the beginning ' (Revelation 3:14 B), but Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning.
    Only God was ' before ' the beginning (Psalms 90:2) God being from everlasting (No beginning ).
    So, Jesus was Not before the beginning as his God was before the beginning.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find it is Not biblical faith that 'is that we can't know', rather that is what is called as credulity or blind faith.
    Jesus based his faith, his beliefs Not blindly, but by using logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
    This is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written..."meaning already written down in the OT.
    So, yes, biblical faith is really a trust in knowing and understanding, meaning trusting the teachings of Christ Jesus.
     
  8. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    The phrase, "beginning of the creation of God" in Rev 3:14 could also be translated from the Greek as, "the chief of the creation of God." The second definition in Strong's for "beginning" (Greek "arche") is "chief."

    That fits with the idea that Jesus was indeed the purpose of the ages (Eph 2:7). As I said in the OP, God's plan, the logos, was centered around Jesus. Jesus was the foundation of the God's plan of redemption. Also, if Jesus was the beginning of God's creation, then there must have been a time, i.e. before the creation, that he did not exist. God began creating with Jesus in mind, which I believe is what John 1:1 and 1:14 says. I think that is what you are saying by differentiating between "beginning" and "everlasting." Anyway, good point.
     
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  9. leov

    leov Active Member
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    Jesus was born of Mary sometimes around 1 AD.
     
  10. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    That sounds about right. God planted seed in Mary's womb. Since Jesus didn't share in the polluted seed of Adam, like the rest of us, he began life as a lamb without blemish. Adam was also born with innocent blood but he screwed it up. But Jesus always did exactly what God, his Father, told him to do, so he remained the lamb without blemish in order to redeem us from sin and death.

    Both Adam and Jesus had free will. The devil told Adam he could be like God if he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. During the desert temptations, the devil also told Jesus he could have power to rule over all the kingdoms of earth (be God) if he would just worship him. Adam, by his free will, chose to believe the devil instead of God. That's what got us into this mess. On the other hand, Jesus, also by free will (he wasn't a robot or God's puppet), chose to obey God instead of the devil.

    It's rather amazing that a man chose to obey God every second of his entire life. The scriptures say he was tempted just like every other man, and yet he never once missed a beat. He always did God's will. I think making Jesus God diminishes his true accomplishment. After all, it would be impossible for God to disobey Himself. Jesus could have, but because he so loved God and people, he subjugated his personal desires and chose to do that which helped all mankind. Jesus even forgave the soldiers who pounded the nails into his hands and feet. How could you not love a guy like that?
     
  11. leov

    leov Active Member
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    I think for a better understanding it is a good idea to separate, like St. Paul, Son of God and Son of Man. Jesus did what He did while indwelled Christ Spirit.
     
  12. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    I think that is true. Without spirit Jesus would have been nothing.
     
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  13. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning there were two spirit beings. Together they were "God". One of them later entered a human body and was called Jesus. When that human body died the spirit returned to heaven and once again there are two spirit beings and together they are called "God".
     
  14. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    The scripture makes it clear there is one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13) This we know is both the Father and the Son.

    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

    Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23)

    So there is not two separate Spirits. God is one and one Spirit. One body which is the church, one head of the body which is the Son of man Jesus. One God over all the body and one Spirit within the body which is the Spirit of God and is the same Spirit of Christ. (Romans 8:9)

    But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Rom. 8:9)
     
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find at Psalms 90:2 that God was ' before ' any beginning. God is from everlasting ( No beginning )
    So, before the beginning there was only God.
    The ' in the beginning Jesus ' was Not before the beginning as his God was before the beginning of anything else.
    I agree that once his God resurrected the dead Jesus he was resurrected back to his heavenly spirit body.
    However, the heavenly ascended Jesus (Hebrews 9:24) still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
     
  16. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Just because we are baptized by one spirit does not prove there could not be more than one. Your last line mentions spirit of God and spirit of Christ. Why is this not two spirits? Just because you can't see it?
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    When you say Jesus has a "God" over him it of course means his Father who Jesus says is greater than himself.
     
  18. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    You bring up some good points, but I'm not sure how any of that proves a trinity.

    I assume you are equating the "one spirit" in 1 Cor 12:13 with the "the Spirit of Christ" and "the "Spirit of God" in Rom 8:9 thereby making the two spirits of Rom actually one spirit. But does it have to mean that?

    There are a few verse that speak of "your spirit" (Gal 6:18, Phil 1:25 for example). So we now have at least three different spirits, God, Jesus, and us mentioned in the Bible. There are other entities called spirits, but we'll just leave them out of the equation for now. The question we need to answer is, to which of those spirits does 1 Cor 12:13 refer?

    But let's say those verses you mentioned in 1 Cor and Romans do prove a trinity and that Jesus is as much God as the Father is God. What do we do then with 1 Cor 8:6? How do we make it say that there is any other God besides God the Father?

    1Cor 8:6,

    But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
    How can we interpret that in a way that would make Jesus, so-called God the Son (which title of course is not actually mentioned in the scriptures) also God?

    Either we need to see both what you said and 1 Cor 8:6 say Jesus is God or he is not God. We certainly can't have one say he is God and another say he is not God.

    Where does it say God is the head of the body? I know that Col 1:18 says Jesus is the head (God made him so), but don't know any that says God is the head.

    The pronoun in John 14:23 is "we." I know of no context where "we" means anything other than 2 or more people. Usually "I" or "me" is used to indicate one person. There is nothing whatsoever, other than predisposed ideas, to indicate that in this case "we" means two in one. I think John 14:23 makes a very clear distinction between God and Jesus. I just don't see how it can be taken in such a way as to make them both the same person.

    Anyway, good discussion. Thanks!

     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Read the scriptures carefully and you'll see. If you are part of the body of Christ then you must have the Spirit of Christ according to Romans 8:9. Otherwise you are not part of His body. Therefore, if we are made to drink of one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13) in order to be members of the body. (1 Corinthians 12:13) then it must be the Spirit of Christ. And yet it also must be the Spirit of God. Therefore, logically these are the same Spirit.
     
  20. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    And so, logically, Christ is God.
     
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