amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
the book describes two different willsGod and Jesus do not have different wills.
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the book describes two different willsGod and Jesus do not have different wills.
That's not a very convincing statement
Yes two different wills, but Jesus clearly acknowledges that His will is completely subservient to God.
He indicates that he his somewhat under a degree of strain in order to comply with the other will. Complete subservience would cause such an acknowledgment to be superfluous
I would say Jesus and God are one in purpose, but in their respective positions about the atonement they would express it from their point of view.So Jesus said he had an independent will to that of god, and this fact alone might tell us a number of things. An obvious question that comes to mind would be, did Jesus actually want to escape from his task. Since he had his own will, this fact seems to be saying that it crossed his mind on some level. Had he lived life according to his own will, it is likely that he would have faced divine wrath, and thus could not hope to achieve a good result in an escape from god. If Jesus had misused is powers, or gave talks with a false aim, god would have most likely rejected him and not enable him to be resurrected. Yet, it still must important to god on some level that jesus have an independent will to that of god, though it isn't all that clear why it would be important, other than the idea that god might value the mere unique personality of a separate being.
By implication, it must....how else could satan have rebelled but to abuse his free will. How could the first humans have chosen to disobey their God in full knowledge of the consequences if they did not have free will?The Scripture doesn't talk about "free will".
It talks about the flesh wanting to do other than what God commands .Adam didn't yield to "free will", he yielded to temptation. And temptation comes from ones own desires of the flesh. And since Jesus was of the same flesh as the rest of us, he could be tempted like the rest of us.
Jesus wasn't being put to death for being a blasphemer. He was put to death because he confessed to be king of the Jews.
By implication, it must....how else could satan have rebelled but to abuse his free will. How could the first humans have chosen to disobey their God in full knowledge of the consequences if they did not have free will?First off, you haven't a clue as to who is Satan. Secondly, Adam yielded to temptation not "free will". The law is made weak by the flesh. Therefore, the flesh is more powerful than the law
The desires of the flesh could not be tempted without free will. Logic 101.
Wrong again. James says that every man is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own desires. That means that the flesh itself has desires which don't care about any law. That's not called "free will". It's called "sin in the flesh" and "lust of the flesh".
The desires of the flesh were natural desires, only with the introduction of sin were human desires warped. Satan plays on our natural desires and distorts them into something offensive to God.
The Scripture NEVER says that human desires were warped only after sin.The fact that Adam and Eve did sin, shows that their desires were warped.
How did satan tempt Jesus? With the same desires that tempted himself. He began by tempting Jesus to produce food for himself because he had fasted for 40 days. The miraculous gifts of the spirit were never to be used selfishly.
The desire for world rulership......coupled with the desire for worship....these things undid that rebel angel.
Again, you haven't a clue as to who is Satan.
So Jesus said he had an independent will to that of god, and this fact alone might tell us a number of things. An obvious question that comes to mind would be, did Jesus actually want to escape from his task. Since he had his own will, this fact seems to be saying that it crossed his mind on some level. Had he lived life according to his own will, it is likely that he would have faced divine wrath, and thus could not hope to achieve a good result in an escape from god. If Jesus had misused is powers, or gave talks with a false aim, god would have most likely rejected him and not enable him to be resurrected. Yet, it still must important to god on some level that jesus have an independent will to that of god, though it isn't all that clear why it would be important, other than the idea that god might value the mere unique personality of a separate being.
So Jesus said he had an independent will to that of god, and this fact alone might tell us a number of things. An obvious question that comes to mind would be, did Jesus actually want to escape from his task. Since he had his own will, this fact seems to be saying that it crossed his mind on some level. Had he lived life according to his own will, it is likely that he would have faced divine wrath, and thus could not hope to achieve a good result in an escape from god. If Jesus had misused is powers, or gave talks with a false aim, god would have most likely rejected him and not enable him to be resurrected. Yet, it still must important to god on some level that jesus have an independent will to that of god, though it isn't all that clear why it would be important, other than the idea that god might value the mere unique personality of a separate being.
Christ prayed (as recorded in scripture) that -if possible -that "cup" (being crucified) might pass from him -but that he would do it if it were God's will.So Jesus said he had an independent will to that of god, and this fact alone might tell us a number of things. An obvious question that comes to mind would be, did Jesus actually want to escape from his task. Since he had his own will, this fact seems to be saying that it crossed his mind on some level. Had he lived life according to his own will, it is likely that he would have faced divine wrath, and thus could not hope to achieve a good result in an escape from god. If Jesus had misused is powers, or gave talks with a false aim, god would have most likely rejected him and not enable him to be resurrected. Yet, it still must important to god on some level that jesus have an independent will to that of god, though it isn't all that clear why it would be important, other than the idea that god might value the mere unique personality of a separate being.
@LightofTruth Can you please edit your post so that I can respond.....thank you.
the book describes two different wills
FREE WILL CANNOT BE APPLIED TO UNIVERSAL LAW EXCEPT TEMPORARILY -TO EVENTUALLY OBEY IT WILLINGLY BECAUSE WE LEARN IT MUST BE DONE BY EXPERIENCING OTHERWISE (actually, CONSIDERING otherwise without experiencing it would be ideal, but some are not thereby convinced). IT IS NOT A LONG TERM OPTION.
So Jesus said he had an independent will to that of god, and this fact alone might tell us a number of things. An obvious question that comes to mind would be, did Jesus actually want to escape from his task. Since he had his own will, this fact seems to be saying that it crossed his mind on some level. Had he lived life according to his own will, it is likely that he would have faced divine wrath, and thus could not hope to achieve a good result in an escape from god. If Jesus had misused is powers, or gave talks with a false aim, god would have most likely rejected him and not enable him to be resurrected. Yet, it still must important to god on some level that jesus have an independent will to that of god, though it isn't all that clear why it would be important, other than the idea that god might value the mere unique personality of a separate being.
Please show the scripture that tells so?
If Jesus did not have his own will, then he was just a puppet. Makes his sacrifice kind of meaningless.
Thinking about it...
Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, Moses his favored position with the Pharaoh, Noah his dignity. These folks had free will. They could have refused. Jesus could not refuse?
I don't like it. If Jesus was just a mouth piece for God, not much to be inspired by.
Matt.26:39 And He went a little further, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Matt.26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if this cup may not pass away from Me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.
John.12:27 Now is My soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.