The Ukrainian War is over. Who will have to reconstruct Ukraine?

[F1fan]

The US confessed it was Ukrainians who sabotaged the Nordstream pipelines.

US was aware of Ukrainian plot to attack Nord Stream, says report

Unconfirmed tip from European ally was cited in a leaked US intelligence document, according to Washington Post

www.ft.com

Big mistake.
Huge mistake.
Enormous mistake.

To sabotage a German infrastructure and then beg for money and weapon as if they were victims.
If you think Germany will side with Ukraine against Russia, after what they did to her, you are either deluded or you think Germans are stupid.



No. US was aware of Ukrainian plot to attack Nord Stream, says report

May I know where you're from?
Just to know where you get your information from. With all due respect.


We Europeans don't say what we think face to face.

I don’t trust any of your sources given your bad reputation.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don’t trust any of your sources given your bad reputation.

Is CNN a good source?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/13/europe/nordstream-plot-dutch-cia-ukraine-russia-intl/index.html

 

[Koldo]

A question (which I don't think you will answer, but I ask it anyway).

When we Italians asked for a ceasefire and signed the armistice with the Americans in September 1943, did we do good or wrong?

Italy was screwed either way.

 

[Stevicus]

That is, between the Americans who want to spend the public money on services to better US citizens' lives, and those who want to waste it on useless ,self-destructive wars in far countries.

The America Firsters tend to be more anti-immigration, favor stronger border security, law enforcement. They don't seem to be big supporters of social programs, though. That could be a problem for both parties, as the economy continues to sputter and the public may continue to grow impatient. But the gridlock and all this political squabbling and infighting will keep the government hobbled. Both sides seem pretty much entrenched and intransigent. The 2024 election is still a big question mark.

Both Germany and Italy absolutely want Ukraine to join.
They are those who decide...basically in the EU.
France does what Germany does.

I can't see how that would work as long as Ukraine is still at war. I also read an article earlier about truckers along the Slovak and Polish borders protesting and blocking cargo trucks from passing through:

Ukraine says Polish trucker protest on border 'catastrophic'

Ukraine on Friday said that the fallout from a weeks-long protest by Polish truckers on their countries' shared border was "catastrophic", as Slovak hauliers also began blockading crossings with their…

www.france24.com

They have lost. They have no chance because now there is winter, and fighting in the snowy steppe is out of question.

It would appear that their survival and viability would depend upon continued Western aid, supplies, and munitions coming in. Without that, then they probably wouldn't be able to hold out.

I doubt it.
Zelensky reminds me of the fascists in 1944, hoping to win the war.

All Ukrainians will flee to Western Europe, sooner or later. Especially Poland and Germany.

In 1943, the Allies had stated their demand for unconditional surrender, which was unacceptable to the Axis Powers (or at least Germany and Japan). I don't think they had any hope of winning the war by 1944, although they may have hoped for a rift between the Western Allies and the Soviets, which could have crippled the Allied war effort.

Ultimately, this will probably end up in a situation analogous to the border between North and South Korea. They might stop fighting, but neither will really give in.

 

[PureX]

The Ukrainians themselves will do the rebuilding. They are a very capable people. The west will provide the investment capital because it will be a good investment both economically and politically.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Looks like Russia controls most the land bordering the sea. Lame

 

[Estro Felino]

Italy was screwed either way.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Estro Felino]

It would appear that their survival and viability would depend upon continued Western aid, supplies, and munitions coming in. Without that, then they probably wouldn't be able to hold out.

In 2024 there are the EU elections and the pro-war leftists are on the verge of committing a political suicide.
They do know that Wilders won the elections because of the anti-war position.

So, Stevicus, I say this frankly: after the 2024 elections the souverainists and the nationalists can undo this EU in any moment. With just a snap of fingers. They have the power, now.
The pro-EU parties don't want to that. And they will become anti-war too.

Ukraine will be forced to stop the war. No armistice, no EU aid and supplies.
Take it or leave it, Kyiv.

In 1943, the Allies had stated their demand for unconditional surrender, which was unacceptable to the Axis Powers (or at least Germany and Japan). I don't think they had any hope of winning the war by 1944, although they may have hoped for a rift between the Western Allies and the Soviets, which could have crippled the Allied war effort.

Our king Victor Emmanuel III didn't want Sicily to become a bloodbath; he didn't want Italians to be massacred by the British and the Americans. That is why he signed the armistice. And Mussolini was in on it.
I mean, the King arrested and hid him, but it was an expedient to elude the Nazis' surveillance.

The difference is that Ukrainians have a leader that couldn't care less if thousands of Ukrainian soldiers die.

So there's the difference between us and them. We had a loving king that did care.

Ultimately, this will probably end up in a situation analogous to the border between North and South Korea. They might stop fighting, but neither will really give in.

I don't think so.
I think there will be a path to peace between Ukraine and Russia thanks to the EU mediation.

But the elitist cabal of warmongers must quit Europe for good and return to their own country. Or it will be impossible.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Ukrainians themselves will do the rebuilding. They are a very capable people. The west will provide the investment capital because it will be a good investment both economically and politically.

It will be the EU.
Not the US.
The US won't spend a dime, unless it's for warfare.

 

[Koldo]

Actually it was us who were invaded by the Americans in 1943. Don't change history.
We didn't go to the US. It's Americans who went to us.

Do you need me to list how many countries Italy invaded during WW 2?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you need me to list how many countries Italy invaded during WW 2?

I will answer your question only when you answer mine: did Italy do good in signing the armistice with the Americans in September 1943?
It's either yes or no.

 

[Koldo]

You didn't answer my question.

It was overall good for Italy since the Allies eventually won the war and Italy kept the vast majority of it's territory (except for the colonies).

 

[Estro Felino]

It was overall good for Italy since the Allies eventually won the war and Italy kept the vast majority of it's territory (except for the colonies).

Exactly. I totally agree.
And it will be overall good for Ukraine to sign an armistice with Russia, since it eventually won the war.

Or do you apply double standards?
Doublestandardism?

Dois pesos e duas medidas?

 

[Koldo]

Exactly. I totally agree.
And it will be overall good for Ukraine to sign an armistice with Russia, since it eventually won the war.

Or do you apply double standards?
Doublestandardism?

Dois pesos e duas medidas?

Completely different situations.
First of all, Italy was invading other countries long before the americans reached italian soil. Italy was acting like Russia is on this war, not like Ukraine.
Second, Italy kept nearly all of it's territory, except for the colonies. Ukraine would lose a very significant part of it's territory as it is.

 

[Estro Felino]

Completely different situations.
First of all, Italy was invading other countries long before the americans reached italian soil. Italy was acting like Russia is on this war, not like Ukraine.
Second, Italy kept nearly all of it's territory, except for the colonies.

That's not absolutely true.
Italy lost the Dalmatia and Istria, because Croatian was the language spoken in those lands.
Italy did lose lands, because they were never Italy's.
They were Slavic lands.

Ukraine would lose a very significant part of it's territory as it is.

But it deals with lands where Russian is spoken.
So it's Ukraine which wants to steal Russian-speaking lands from Russia.

 

[PureX]

It will be the EU.
Not the US.
The US won't spend a dime, unless it's for warfare.

When Ukraine wins, as it most likely will, western capitalists will be looking to score big on investing in a nation that's on the rise. All the assets Putin was looking to steal and give to his Russian oligarchs will be available for western investment. And the Ukrainians won't mind this because it helps to make sure the west will continue to look out for them. Because so long as Putin is alive, and maybe even after, Russia will remain a very real ongoing threat to Ukraine. And yes, European governments will help finance the rebuilding because they know Russia will continue to be a threat.

I feel sad for the Russian people, as they are the ones that really got screwed by all of this.

 

[Estro Felino]

When Ukraine wins, as it most likely will, western capitalists will be looking to score big on investing in a nation that's on the rise. All the assets Putin was looking to steal and give to his Russian oligarchs will be available for western investment. And the Ukrainians won't mind this because it helps to make sure the west will continue to look out for them. Because so long as Putin is alive, and maybe even after, Russia will remain a very real ongoing threat to Ukraine. And yes, European governments will help finance the rebuilding because they know Russia will continue to be a threat.

I feel sad for the Russian people, as they are the ones that really got screwed by all of this.

Russia is a Paradise because it has shut down its doors to individuals like Kissinger.

Do you think Kissinger is in a good and bright place, right now?

 

[Koldo]

That's not absolutely true.
Italy lost the Dalmatia and Istria, because Croatian was the language spoken in those lands.
Italy did lose lands, because they were never Italy's.
They were Slavic lands.

Both of which had been only recently annexed by Italy. Once again, completely different situation.

But it deals with lands where Russian is spoken.
So it's Ukraine which wants to steal Russian-speaking lands from Russia.

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter which language is being spoken. By this standard, nearly the entirety of Latin America belongs to Spain and Portugal.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter which language is being spoken. By this standard, nearly the entirety of Latin America belongs to Spain and Portugal.

The problem is that Ukraine doesn't respect Russians in Donbas.
That's why they don't deserve those lands.

They are the perpetrators in this war.

 

[LuisDantas]

If you bring me a EU citizen that contradicts my claim, well... you can say I am not a EU spokesperson.
British citizens don't count.

Come on. Surely you realize how pretentious and arrogant you sound.