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The Truth About God.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by SpiritualSon, May 10, 2004.

  1. THE DEVIL

    THE DEVIL Member

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    Yes, but god only has one name. In essence.
     
  2. MarkT

    MarkT Member

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    No. He wasn't a prophet but his understanding was pretty good.

    I think he had a good understanding of the Old Testament but his knowledge of Jesus probably came from the Christian religion being practiced at the time.

    By the 4th century the church was practicing religion again. Common people didn't have access to the Bible.

    The Koran is his argument for following Ibrahim's religion rather than the religion that was being practiced by the Jews and the Christians. To his credit he could see they were on the wrong path.

    I'm agreeing with him in that respect.

    The Cow

    "2.135": And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.

    "2.136": Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.

    As we can see, he didn't have any knowledge that Jesus was the Son of God, the Christ, however, he is right about there being only one God.

    Depends on what you mean by evidence. Evidence of thunder and lightening existed. Thor was the god of thunder and lightening. It's more likely you would have been a follower of this religion because everyone else was doing it. One of the arguments for evolution, for example, is that the majority of scientists believe in it. I assume you think it's a good argument. If so, then it's likely you would have been swayed by the majority belief at the time if you'd been living then.
     
  3. Mr Spinkles

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    You have not answered my question--why do you not believe Mohommad was the last and most important prophet? Mohommad did not believe Jesus was the Son of God. Why do you disagree with him? Will you not accept what he says until you see him perform a miracle?

    These questions are meant to echo your own comment earlier that I have to 'see to believe'. I would argue that everyone has to see to believe, but some of us are willing to look around a little more than others.

    An interesting comment, considering less than 3% of Americans are atheists, and almost everyone I know believes in God. A real crowd-follower, aren't I?

    You know what happens when you assume...no, I think evolution is a good argument because the evidence supports it: all (complex) life comes from living parents (not from mud or supernatural fairydust), and living things back in the day were different from modern living things. Evolution, in some form, must have occurred to explain these observations.

    Go science! :goodjob:
     
  4. MarkT

    MarkT Member

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    You're absolutely right about regeneration. The words God gave us are the seed. It grows into the spritual body which we have to put on. 1 Corinthians 15:53

    James 1:21
    Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

    God granted his Word to have life in himself.

    His Word became our Lord.

    "the Lord said to my Lord" Matthew 22:44

    When Jesus asked the Pharisees what they thought of the Christ; "Who's son is he?", they answered, "The son of David" but Jesus said David called the Christ his Lord so how could he be his son?

    "God, thy God" Hebrews 1:9

    God calls his Son "God".

    If you look at yourself in the mirror, you're seeing your image in the light. God's image was in his light. God caused his light to have life in himself, to become a man, so that we could be taught by God through his Son so that by believing in His Son we could inherit eternal life.
     
  5. MarkT

    MarkT Member

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    Because I see things in the light of Christ. Christ is my truth. Everyone who doesn't have the light needs to see to believe.

    You would have been a Thor follower back then because there was no "evidence" to "prove" anything else.

    How do you know the "evidence" supports it given you have no a priori knowledge of it? How do you know it's necessarily true? What we can observe could have evolved from different kinds. The kinds could have been created.

    Does it makes sense that a reptile remained a reptile for millions of years and then when the others of its kind disappeared, it became a bird? If that could happen then perhaps the dinosaurs didn't disappear. Maybe they became elephants and giraffes, even apes that became man.
     
  6. Mr Spinkles

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    You don't need to see to believe? So, even though you do not see complete truth in what Mohommad says, you still believe he is the last and most important Prophet, right?

    Today, there is no "evidence" to "prove" what causes lots of natural phenomena....yet I still do not resort to explaining these things with an imaginary deity. You would have been a Thor follower because that's how you would explain thunder and lightning, just as you are a God follower because that's how you explain human emotions, morals, and the origins of life and the cosmos. I look for natural explainations, not supernatural ones (like God or Thor).

    I agree. It's a theory, and theories can be wrong (even good ones). In fact, everything we know could be wrong. But we have to try and explain things the best we can.

    It would make more sense for a reptile to become a bird than for supernatural clay to become a bird. And it would make more sense for thunder and lightning to come from the things in the atmosphere than for Thor to create them where they appear.

    Why do theists have a problem with evolution, anyway? The only thing evolution contradicts is a literal interpretation of Genesis. Couldn't God have created all life, and evolution was his method? At any rate, if you want to debate evolution, go to the evolution threads--it's too big a topic to be mixed in here as well.
     
  7. SpiritualSon

    SpiritualSon Member

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    From Mr Spinkles
    Why do theists have a problem with evolution, anyway? The only thing evolution contradicts is a literal interpretation of Genesis. Couldn't God have created all life, and evolution was his method? At any rate, if you want to debate evolution, go to the evolution threads--it's too big a topic to be mixed in here as well.

    From me
    The writings about Adam and Eve in Genesis is a representation of the first church on earth. They were not the first people living in this world at that time. Where and how did Cain meet his wife? Where did Mrs Cain come from?
     
  8. SpiritualSon

    SpiritualSon Member

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    If there were no God,man would not blasphemy against God.

    I bring excitement to this board.That's why I created this topic.

    Harry
     
  9. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    Mark T

    You continually use the argument of a priori knowledge of god. In other words, gods have always been true regardless of the experience or knowledge of the individual.

    A priori knowledge includes concepts like logic and mathematics - tangible consistencies that everyone can see and use on a daily basis. I can take 2 objects and place them with 2 others and see 4 objects.

    And even though gods have NEVER been shown to be true, gods have no logical consistencies and cannot be seen by anyone, you lump your belief in gods together with logical consistencies.

    Yu can therefore claim aliens visiting Earth is a priori knowledge - the existence of invisible pink unicorns is a priori knowledge. In fact, you can make any claim you want, no matter how ridiculous or far-fetched and simply claim it as a priori knowledge.

    Of course, you can never show or argue that gods exist, aliens visiting Earth or invisible pink unicorns in the same manner that I can show you 2 plus 2 equals 4.

    Therefore your claim of a priori knowledge of god lacks and credibility whatsoever and is completely bogus.
     
  10. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    I bring excitement to this board.That's why I created this topic.

    Harry, sermons are far from exciting. :roll:
     
  11. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    hmm. lets see, people call him jehova, yahweh, God, the Lord, Jesus (as the incarnation), The big guy, and on the other end of the spectrum, hindus have many names for God (about 300 thou).

    i do hope you are reffering to spiritual sight, not physical (like with the eyeballs).
    not everyone needs miricles. no water turning into wine, no walking on water. i dont expect anything from God, I'm thankful for what He has given me.

    perhaps those miricles are small ones. like little signs that everyone sees. fuzzy stuff...lol.


    no one is born good or evil. its their actions that judge them according to human (?) morality. a person can be influenced by 'evil' surroundings and thus do evil, but no person is actually born 'evil'. its impossible. for example, a child is born in a cannible tribe. he doenst know its evil (according to our society). The kid was broughtup that way.

    God created us to have *freewill*.

    sadly there are many ignorant people who cannot interpret scripture by thier heart, only to read word to word of what some biased man said several hundred years ago.
     
  12. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    And what if their heart reaches the same conclusion that biased man said several hundred years ago?
     
  13. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    LCMS,

    Well, these arent exactly difficult odds. A religious person's heart has a 50/50 chance of reaching the same conclusion, because there is only one other alternative: *not* taking the bible literally.
     
  14. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    And what if their heart reaches the same conclusion that biased man said several hundred years ago?

    That would depend on what conclusions the brain reaches as it is the one that does the thinking. The heart pumps blood.
     
  15. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    scripture is there to be left for the individual to interpret himself. no priest or anyone can do that.

    it is for the individual to discover the truth on his or her own. no one can help him on that.
     
  16. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    On the contrary, Ceridwen, people can interpret Scripture in an infinite number of ways. There is no 50/50 chance. If there was, there would be one Christian church, not a fragmented one with dozens of denominations. How would it be explained then that great numbers of people believe in the same theology as their church teaches. The LCMS as 2.5 million members. Many of them agree on the same basic faith and interpretation of the Bible. How is this possible that many millions can come to the same faith? Don't say they have all been brainwashed, because there are many like me in the church who have experienced many different denominations before choosing one that they believe is the one true faith. How is this possible? As far as Q's comment, you know what I mean Q. Please don't insult my intelligence.
     
  17. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    LCMS,

    Fair enough. But the point here is, just because someone believes the same thing that someone however many years ago believed, doesn't mean it's any more true. Great minds think alike, but ridiculous ones do too.

    There are indeed many interpretations of the bible, and I'm glad that you recognize that, because there are many religious on these forums who do not. I guess that question would be then, which is the right one? But is that the right question? Do you believe that there is only one true interpretation, or that each is correct in its own way?
     
  18. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    I do believe Ceridwen, that there is only one true interpretation of the Bible, and that it is the literal one. Why? Because, if the Bible is not literal in one place than what is to say that the entire Bible is not just some made up book of metaphors and stories. The doctrinal and theological basis of Christianity itself demands that the Bible be literal, because a single chink in the armor is enough to tear apart the rest of Christianity's beliefs and practices. At the same time, I do realize that many other denominations and religions interpret the Bible differently. However, I believe that if you are a Christian then you must accept the Bible as totally true and infallable because the very theology of Christianity rests on its infallability.
     
  19. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but there are many interpretations of the same thing. Different people interpret in different ways. There are surface level interpretations and deeper interpretations.

    i.e. "Do no hide your lamp under a bushel." "Or walk while you have the light." If we took these literally we would never put our lamp under a bushel or walk at night. Many people do not interpret to the deepest inner level. Some of us want to project onto something outer.
     
  20. LCMS Sprecher

    LCMS Sprecher Member

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    Of course there are some metaphorical comments made in the Bible and such comments are extremely obvious. I am not saying every single phrase of the Bible should be taken exactly literally. Jesus uses metaphors in His parables. Metaphors are used numerous times in the book of Revelation. However, I believe the Bible should be taken literally in all other cases where metaphors are not expressly used.
     
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