The Trump Administration believes in 'Herd Immunity supposedly practiced by Sweden

[Milton Platt]

The Trump Administration believes in 'Herd Immunity supposedly practiced by Sweden, but more deliberately than Sweden.

The Trump administration by their acts and policy. The refusal to wear masks and distancing by the administration particularly Trump and Pence signal as an example to support this strategy. The Republican governors of Florida and Georgia reinforce this view by there polices when their states are hot with the virus and increasing cases and fatalities. Kind of like a form of eugenics.

Trump urging on opposition demonstrations against the Democratic states further reinforces this, and adds a political motive.

more to follow . . .

i think it just is a manifestation of ignorance,

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Experts have calculated that 250,000,000 will die from hunger by the end of the year due to the failed economy caused by the destruction of the global economy induced by the lockdowns. I say we reopen the economy and let COVID rip. It will be bad, but not as bad as the alternative. The problem is that people can't see beyond the end of their noses. They see the IMMEDIATE threat of the pandemic, and don't have the ability to understand that lockdowns have worse consequences in terms of loss of life over time. And, btw, all the lockdown is doing is PROLONGING the pandemic. It's not stopping it.

Can you cite sources for this? I'd be interested to read them.

 

[shunyadragon]

i think it just is a manifestation of ignorance,

Manifestation of self-imposed ignorance.

 

[Milton Platt]

Manifestation of self-imposed ignorance.

Yes, that is the sort of ignorance I had in mind...just did a poor job of articulating it.

 

[Sunstone]

Actually you're the one who appears to be thinking in the short-term. If you think that lock downs like the ones were currently experiencing has had a negative effect on the economy, just wait until you let 'COVID rip' as you suggest and then you'll not just see our economy stall... you'll watch it collapse completely. You think it's bad now, just wait until we've got dead bodies piling up in the streets because the social services needed to deal with them has completely broken down.

You bring up a calculation that is not mentioned often enough in discussions of this sort. Thank you.

The tendency here is to portray the choices in childishly simplistic, polarized, and one-dimensional terms. "Virus Fatalities" vs "Economic Fatalities". Just as if the only practical choice that can be made is between complete lock down and a totally open economy.

That amounts to discussing the issue on a level of intellectual development below that of a 15 year old. Fifteen or so is the age that psychologists tell us a majority of children now possess brains well enough developed to think in more nuanced ways that 'black and white'.

Apparently, on RF, thinking above the level of an average 15 year old is something a strangely large number of us struggle with. Maybe we've gotten as a group too partisan to allow ourselves to 'think our age'.

It's becoming a serious concern of mine.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You bring up a calculation that is not mentioned often enough in discussions of this sort. Thank you.

The tendency here is to portray the choices in childishly simplistic, polarized, and one-dimensional terms. "Virus Fatalities" vs "Economic Fatalities". Just as if the only practical choice that can be made is between complete lock down and a totally open economy.

That amounts to discussing the issue on a level of intellectual development below that of a 15 year old. Fifteen or so is the age that psychologists tell us a majority of children now possess brains well enough developed to think in more nuanced ways that 'black and white'.

Apparently, on RF, thinking above the level of an average 15 year old is something a strangely large number of us struggle with. Maybe we've gotten as a group too partisan to allow ourselves to 'think our age'.

It's becoming a serious concern of mine.

Mine too, but I see this sort of approach in real life too.
*shudders*

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Actually, it's the liberals that don't care about them, since they are the ones who want a long lockdown.

The moment this morphed from a "best practice healthcare" issue to a "waaaah! Libruls!" issue was the moment America lost it's last shred of credibility, IMHO.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Hasn't been a problem so far that I'm aware of. We've reports of excess ventilators and hospital space.

In some hospitals. Are you saying the ALL hospitals have excess ventilators and space?

The COVID-19 ‘Empty Hospital’ Conspiracies | Center for Inquiry

 

[Nakosis]

In some hospitals. Are you saying the ALL hospitals have excess ventilators and space?

The COVID-19 ‘Empty Hospital’ Conspiracies | Center for Inquiry

No, also not sure the purpose of the link you provided but thanks for the information.

 

[Nakosis]

Where you are. Not the same here in Seattle. My cousin works as an ER doctor here as well, and I trust her over many posters on this forum.

Fair enough. Probably more reliable than network media. Would you mind asking your cousin how many people they had to turn away because they lacked space?

 

[Wandering Monk]

As Minnesota Governor Tim Walz let slip today, the lock-down is to protect hospitals and vulnerable people BUT it also has the effect of creating herd immunity at a semi-controlled rate. This is based on the reality that no lock-down is 100% observed by people.

 

[Nakosis]

The Trump Administration believes in 'Herd Immunity supposedly practiced by Sweden, but more deliberately than Sweden.

The Trump administration by their acts and policy. The refusal to wear masks and distancing by the administration particularly Trump and Pence signal as an example to support this strategy. The Republican governors of Florida and Georgia reinforce this view by there polices when their states are hot with the virus and increasing cases and fatalities. Kind of like a form of eugenics.

Trump urging on opposition demonstrations against the Democratic states further reinforces this, and adds a political motive.

more to follow . . .

So I guess you disagree with the World Health Organization that Sweden is the model to follow.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As Minnesota Governor Tim Walz let slip today, the lock-down is to protect hospitals and vulnerable people BUT it also has the effect of creating herd immunity at a semi-controlled rate. This is based on the reality that no lock-down is 100% observed by people.

*Laughs in Australia and New Zealand*

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So I guess you disagree with the World Health Organization that Sweden is the model to follow.

Where'd they say that?

 

[Altfish]

So over 130 milllion additional people on the brink of starvation or 10-30 million people with severe symptoms from a viral illness. Both suck, but I'd vote for the latter because of both the smaller numbers AND the issue of years of life lost. Remember the median age at death from COVID in Italy was 79.5, and 99.2% of those sick had at least one underlying health condition. So, to put it bluntly, most people who die from COVID have one foot in the grave already. But starvation affects all age groups, and many who die of starvation are children with entire lives to live.

My Mum and Dad are in their 90s; I am retiring this month, most of my friends are 65+. Your policy would kill many of us, thanks.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

My Mum and Dad are in their 90s; I am retiring this month, most of my friends are 65+. Your policy would kill many of us, thanks.

bUt ThE eCoNoMy...

 

[Altfish]

bUt ThE eCoNoMy...

Yeah, must look after the party donors.

 

[shunyadragon]

So I guess you disagree with the World Health Organization that Sweden is the model to follow.

I do not agree necessarily with any particularly model(?). My point on 'supposedly' is that Sweden does not claim to follow a 'herd immunity' model. I believe my analysis reveals that the course of the pandemic remains the natural course of virus pandemics, epidemics, and seasonal infections as in colds and mild flus, in the form of a bell curve where the virus comes uses the host for its benefit and then leaves to infect another host or the particular strain like SARS 2008 apparently dies out. The viruses that are best able to mutate and diversify respond to the increasing immunity in a host population, simply move on to another host.

I spend a great deal of time, work stopped until about June 1, carefully studying the data. My problem with USA is inconsistent, erratic leadership from the beginning, with a heavy dose of denial concerning the pandemic.

The only model that worked is in South Korea, Japan and Germany is proactive, aggressive methods from the beginning, and consistent after that, everybody else appears to be not much different and the virus appears to be not in control. The USA appears to be worse dealing with the coronavirus, and still has serious problems in states infected late and still are in the increasing in cases and fatalities, and the governors are indifferent to the methods to reduce the fatalities particularly among the elderly and vulnerable.

There were very early reports from China, Italy, South Korea and Japan that the elderly and vulnerable were extremely vulnerable to severe cases and death, but the USA did not take this into consideration in isolating this population from the virus early in the pandemic. This was alao apparent in the first warnings from Washington State.

 

[Nakosis]

Where'd they say that?

Despite these alarming realities, Sweden's approach was still lauded by the World Health Organization (WHO). Surprisingly, WHO has praised Sweden as a “model” for battling COVID-19.
Coronavirus Update: WHO Praises Sweden For Resisting Lockdown Despite Growing COVID-19 Cases And Deaths

IDK, maybe they are just trying to get back on Trump's good side.

 

[Nakosis]

I spend a great deal of time, work stopped until about June 1, carefully studying the data. My problem with USA is inconsistent, erratic leadership from the beginning, with a heavy dose of denial concerning the pandemic.

Can't disagree with this.