The Trump Administration believes in 'Herd Immunity supposedly practiced by Sweden

[Rational Agnostic]

Yes, I said like eugenics without consideration of the consequences. I believe the actions and policies of the Trump administration and that of the Republican governors is a clear withness to the facts supporting this argument.

"Eugenics" involves controlling who reproduces, thereby modifying the gene pool. Most of the people who die from the virus are well past the age at which they would have passed on their genes, so obviously "eugenics" is not the correct analogy.

 

[wandering peacefully]

The Trump Administration believes in 'Herd Immunity supposedly practiced by Sweden, but more deliberately than Sweden.

The Trump administration by their acts and policy. The refusal to wear masks and distancing by the administration particularly Trump and Pence signal as an example to support this strategy. The Republican governors of Florida and Georgia reinforce this view by there polices when their states are hot with the virus and increasing cases and fatalities. Kind of like a form of eugenics.

Trump urging on opposition demonstrations against the Democratic states further reinforces this, and adds a political motive.

more to follow . . .

I just cannot understand why these people believe the virus has just dissappeared? Don't they understand the only reason why infections are slowing is because of what everyone has sacrificed in staying away from each other? What exactly is different now than when this thing explodes a month ago? Is it because they know who is most likely to die now and it's okay? It sure can't be because the virus is not going to spread again just like before we separated ourselves. We don't have a vaccine yet so nothing has been done which will keep it from doing the same thing the virus did 2 months ago. I just don't get the thinking.

 

[McBell]

Experts have calculated that 250,000,000 will die from hunger by the end of the year due to the failed economy caused by the destruction of the global economy induced by the lockdowns.

That is a completely false misrepresentation of what was actually said.
In fact, I say it is a bold faced lie.
That is how far off the mark it is from what was actually said.

I say we reopen the economy and let COVID rip. It will be bad, but not as bad as the alternative.

What "alternative"?
Your bold face lie above?

The problem is that people can't see beyond the end of their noses.

Is this belief the reason you thought your bold face lie would pass muster?

They see the IMMEDIATE threat of the pandemic, and don't have the ability to understand that lockdowns have worse consequences in terms of loss of life over time.

Lost life based on your bold face lie?
Seems to me the lockdown is to give the USA Medical System a chance to catch back up.
Not that I am holding my breath it can.

And, btw, all the lockdown is doing is PROLONGING the pandemic. It's not stopping it.

Flat out wrong.
The lockdown is supposed to let the overwhelmed medical system catch up.
It cannot do that if there is no slow down on people getting infected.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your fear mongering.

 

[The Hammer]

Herd immunity has to be the inevitable conclusion to this, the only question being, how long do we continue to try to flatten the curve.

Until it is low enough that our hospitals and said staff can handle the surge of cases, IMO.

 

[shunyadragon]

I just cannot understand why these people believe the virus has just dissappeared? Don't they understand the only reason why infections are slowing is because of what everyone has sacrificed in staying away from each other? What exactly is different now than when this thing explodes a month ago? Is it because they know who is most likely to die now and it's okay? It sure can't be because the virus is not going to spread again just like before we separated ourselves. We don't have a vaccine yet so nothing has been done which will keep it from doing the same thing the virus did 2 months ago. I just don't get the thinking.

This reflects you lack of background in the biology of viruses. Yes viruses can just disappear as did the SARS 2008-9 epidemic. The virus in fact just disappeared. It was a failed strain of virus.Other viruses such as the flu viruses that do just jump to another host, and do naturally and seasonally end their infection of humans. The various cold viruses do the same thing every year, and seasonally.

 

[shunyadragon]

"Eugenics" involves controlling who reproduces, thereby modifying the gene pool. Most of the people who die from the virus are well past the age at which they would have passed on their genes, so obviously "eugenics" is not the correct analogy.

Eugenics is more than that. In this case it would selectively allow ALL those young and old that do not have the best immune system to survive the virus to die by allowing the virus to freely circulate in the population.

 

[shunyadragon]

Besides eugenics isn't really as evil as one might think when you consider that it is in the interest of preservation of traits that strengthen people not weaken them.

You explained it well!

It's not like Trump is calling for the purposeful mass extermination of the biologically weak, as evidenced by the continuation of safety and health protocol to give them the best chance as humanly possible.

Mass extermination was never an issue here, and you are injecting the poison of way over the top exaggeration of my post and the facts of the Trump administration. Trump's actions actions and policies speak for themselves.

Like a lot of doctors are saying we're just vying for some time so that the hospitals can manage things and also get something developed by way of a control or a vaccine.

Huh!?!?!? I don;t believe your saying this.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

That is a completely false misrepresentation of what was actually said.
In fact, I say it is a bold faced lie.
That is how far off the mark it is from what was actually said.


What "alternative"?
Your bold face lie above?


Is this belief the reason you thought your bold face lie would pass muster?


Lost life based on your bold face lie?
Seems to me the lockdown is to give the USA Medical System a chance to catch back up.
Not that I am holding my breath it can.


Flat out wrong.
The lockdown is supposed to let the overwhelmed medical system catch up.
It cannot do that if there is no slow down on people getting infected.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your fear mongering.

Calling people liars without providing evidence is a very juvenile tactic, and also violates the forum rules.

 

[McBell]

Calling people liars without providing evidence is a very juvenile tactic, and also violates the forum rules.

You really do need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

 

[wandering peacefully]

This reflects you lack of background in the biology of viruses. Yes viruses can just disappear as did the SARS 2008-9 epidemic. The virus in fact just disappeared. It was a failed strain of virus.Other viruses such as the flu viruses that do just jump to another host, and do naturally and seasonally end their infection of humans. The various cold viruses do the same thing every year, and seasonally.

Yes, but do you understand that this virus is still in full speed ahead mode? It may run its course but not until a whole bunch of more people die. Are you suggesting Covid19 is done killing hosts? It wasn't an argument, it was a question on why this president thinks opening back up isn't still a hazard at this point in time. If I were a nurse or doctor I might throw my hands up and ask what the point is of their service the past two months. Should they be expected to go back to what they were doing to try to save people? It just seems like our leader has decided old, sick, Black and Hispanic people might be okay to infect if it means no further damage to his economy. But never mind. You don't seem to know.

 

[Nakosis]

Until it is low enough that our hospitals and said staff can handle the surge of cases, IMO.

Hasn't been a problem so far that I'm aware of. We've reports of excess ventilators and hospital space.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, but do you understand that this virus is still in full speed ahead mode? It may run its course but not until a whole bunch of more people die. Are you suggesting Covid19 is done killing hosts? It wasn't an argument, it was a question on why this president thinks opening back up isn't still a hazard at this point in time. If I were a nurse or doctor I might throw my hands up and ask what the point is of their service the past two months. Should they be expected to go back to what they were doing to try to save people? It just seems like our leader has decided old, sick, Black and Hispanic people might be okay to infect if it means no further damage to his economy. But never mind. You don't seem to know.

I never suggested the COVID 19 is finished killing people. Go back and read my posts and cite my accurately, and then I will respond.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Experts have calculated that 250,000,000 will die from hunger by the end of the year due to the failed economy caused by the destruction of the global economy induced by the lockdowns. I say we reopen the economy and let COVID rip. It will be bad, but not as bad as the alternative. The problem is that people can't see beyond the end of their noses. They see the IMMEDIATE threat of the pandemic, and don't have the ability to understand that lockdowns have worse consequences in terms of loss of life over time. And, btw, all the lockdown is doing is PROLONGING the pandemic. It's not stopping it.

Actually you're the one who appears to be thinking in the short-term. If you think that lock downs like the ones were currently experiencing has had a negative effect on the economy, just wait until you let 'COVID rip' as you suggest and then you'll not just see our economy stall... you'll watch it collapse completely. You think it's bad now, just wait until we've got dead bodies piling up in the streets because the social services needed to deal with them has completely broken down.

 

[sun rise]

Herd immunity has to be the inevitable conclusion to this, the only question being, how long do we continue to try to flatten the curve.

That ignores the facts. when therapies drop the death toll way down, then it becomes no worse than a cold. That is one end point. Vaccine will also establish immunity without the death toll.

So the question is whether we make a false choice or a choice based on facts and current research. I vote for the latter.

Actually, it's the liberals that don't care about them, since they are the ones who want a long lockdown.

Wrong. The right wants to open now and who cares how many dies. The left wants a lockdown just long enough to have a reasonable low death rate and to have measures in place to prevent it from getting worse while focusing on drugs and vaccines.

 

[The Hammer]

Hasn't been a problem so far that I'm aware of. We've reports of excess ventilators and hospital space.

Where you are. Not the same here in Seattle. My cousin works as an ER doctor here as well, and I trust her over many posters on this forum.

 

[shunyadragon]

Actually, it's the liberals that don't care about them, since they are the ones who want a long lockdown.

That my friend cares about saving lives.

 

[Nakosis]

That ignores the facts. when therapies drop the death toll way down, then it becomes no worse than a cold. That is one end point. Vaccine will also establish immunity without the death toll.

We have yet to manage that with other cases of flu.
2017-2018 flu season had 61000 deaths in the US.
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2017–2018 influenza season | CDC

So the question is whether we make a false choice or a choice based on facts and current research. I vote for the latter.

What facts? As pointed out by the CDC, actual death estimates usually go down after they have had time to review the data. The "scientific" models have been way off so far. The information we currently have I wouldn't call facts.

 

[shunyadragon]

That ignores the facts. when therapies drop the death toll way down, then it becomes no worse than a cold. That is one end point. Vaccine will also establish immunity without the death toll.

This is to simplistic, and optimistic, yes viruses do all of the above to a degree, but this is an exaggeration.

 

[Shad]

That ignores the facts. when therapies drop the death toll way down, then it becomes no worse than a cold. That is one end point. Vaccine will also establish immunity without the death toll.

So the question is whether we make a false choice or a choice based on facts and current research. I vote for the latter.



Wrong. The right wants to open now and who cares how many dies. The left wants a lockdown just long enough to have a reasonable low death rate and to have measures in place to prevent it from getting worse while focusing on drugs and vaccines.

You are ignoring that many people can not pay their bills. Again. You frame the right in the most malicious view while framing a benevolent view of the left. Your bias is transparent.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Actually, it's the liberals that don't care about them, since they are the ones who want a long lockdown.

Actually, it's the folks with an insane amount of resources hoarded away that aren't willing to hand them out to those impacted by economic fallout from the lockdown that don't actually care about them.