SLPCCC
Active Member
...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
This argument has already been debunked. See #344
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...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
Precisely about the evident involvement politically.I agree with what you say. However the situation with arianism became considerably complicated by politics and other factors. Some, such as Marcellus of Ancyra rejected the term homoousios in the Nicene creed, as insisted on by Constantine, not because they were arians, but just because they disliked the introduction of the novel philosophical term "homoousios" as derived from Greek paganism.
So you think Jesus didn't really mean the Father is greater than he is.This argument has already been debunked. See #344
If only you really knew what the Bible says and believed it. You keep getting the word God mixed up and you don't understand Psalm 82 or the prophecies or that Athanasius did not really understand who Jesus was. The more I read commentaries supporting the Athanasian Creed, the more dysfunctional it gets in application. Too bad you fell for it. And many people that go through rituals of worship don't care. Why not tell us that adherents to other religions will be saved according to your belief and the Athanasian Creed?First of all, the Hebrew scriptures were first written in Hebrew. Abraham did not speak Greek so proskenuo was not the word used. It was a Hebrew word that means bowed down. The Greek word that was used was in Greek in the new testament which was proskenuo which means worship. Look it up and see for your self.
Second, the WTS translates Proskyneu correctly as worship in other places like Matt. 4:10, John 4:20, and at many many other places. It just plain dishonesty on the part of the JWs bible.
The more I read about Athanasius as well as Constantine and the situation, the more I realize how twisted it is. The true God made himself "known" particularly to certain ones, and the people known as the Israelites (descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) were particularly bound to Jehovah. It all goes back in the long run to what happened in the garden of Eden.I agree with what you say. However the situation with arianism became considerably complicated by politics and other factors. Some, such as Marcellus of Ancyra rejected the term homoousios in the Nicene creed, as insisted on by Constantine, not because they were arians, but just because they disliked the introduction of the novel philosophical term "homoousios" as derived from Greek paganism.
Bow down does not always mean worship but then in order to comprehend that, one would also have to get the way the word God is used. And unfortunately for some, this may not happen.First of all, the Hebrew scriptures were first written in Hebrew. Abraham did not speak Greek so proskenuo was not the word used. It was a Hebrew word that means bowed down. The Greek word that was used was in Greek in the new testament which was proskenuo which means worship. Look it up and see for your self.
Second, the WTS translates Proskyneu correctly as worship in other places like Matt. 4:10, John 4:20, and at many many other places. It just plain dishonesty on the part of the JWs bible.
I checked, just for the fun of it. And here's what you said:This argument has already been debunked. See #344
Christology is important for Trinity doctrine. All Gospels acknowledge Jesus as Christ but there were different perceptions of Jesus as Christ - early Christologies. What do you think about "low Christology" as in the gospel of Mark and Ebionites?What part are we to focus on?
Many natures in one person is not problematic in itself. For example a human is also an animal. The problem is divine nature. It can mean the nature of all superhuman beings (like for example "the giants") or the (one) source of all being. This source can be only one, simple (undispersed) and spirit (non-physical).I find the Trinitarian / Chalcedonian formulation of "unity in one person with two natures" deceitful, because logically the concept denoted two people, a divine person and a human person whom cannot be blended, which is an axiomatic principle for the philosophy engaged. If they cannot be blended they are two people, by definition.
I agree the problem is not multiple natures, because 2 Pet 1:4 allows humanity to put on the divine nature. The problem is with the concept of reducing a divine person to a divine nature, and a human person to a human nature, and somehow creating one person out of two, possessing all the attributes of God and man simultaneously, although supposedly the divine attributes were voluntary set aside. I just don't buy into the formula, not least because Matt 26:53 disclosed that Jesus really was powerless.Many natures in one person is not problematic in itself. For example a human is also an animal. The problem is divine nature. It can mean the nature of all superhuman beings (like for example "the giants") or the (one) source of all being. This source can be only one, simple (undispersed) and spirit (non-physical).
Exactly! Jesus is fully human (therefore, no more divine than any of the rest of us human beings), and is god's gatekeeper. So, please answer my question: what theological tenet allows for human beings to be God's gatekeepers? You just handed me a bunch of disparate bits of scripture, but you didn't answer my question. And you simply complicated matters. If Jesus is fully human (like the rest of us), and Jesus came from heaven, then we all come from heaven. If Jesus is fully human, in what way is he set apart from the rest of us?I'll discuss this point now. Jesus knew who he was. He came from heaven.
The Bible does not say that Jesus was God-on-earth in human flesh equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit. When he was on the earth, he was human, not equal to God.
If you look at Psalm 82:6,7, which Jesus referenced, you will see that mortals are referred to as gods.
I have said, “You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. But like mortals you will die, and like rulers you will fall.”
Please also look at John 16:23. "At that time you won’t need to ask me for anything. I tell you the truth, you will ask the Father directly, and he will grant your request because you use my name."
John 14:6 helps to understand this:
"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Since I am not God, I can only discuss it as best I know it. When the person said to be the Son of God came into Mary's womb, he was an embryo. To the best of my knowledge, embryos don't think. Make of that what you will, please.Exactly! Jesus is fully human (therefore, no more divine than any of the rest of us human beings), and is god's gatekeeper. So, please answer my question: what theological tenet allows for human beings to be God's gatekeepers? You just handed me a bunch of disparate bits of scripture, but you didn't answer my question. And you simply complicated matters. If Jesus is fully human (like the rest of us), and Jesus came from heaven, then we all come from heaven. If Jesus is fully human, in what way is he set apart from the rest of us?
After reading the above post, since you say he was human like the rest of us, do you believe that Jesus was the only perfect (without sin) man to be on this earth (except for Adam, of course)?Exactly! Jesus is fully human (therefore, no more divine than any of the rest of us human beings), and is god's gatekeeper. So, please answer my question: what theological tenet allows for human beings to be God's gatekeepers? You just handed me a bunch of disparate bits of scripture, but you didn't answer my question. And you simply complicated matters. If Jesus is fully human (like the rest of us), and Jesus came from heaven, then we all come from heaven. If Jesus is fully human, in what way is he set apart from the rest of us?
In actuality, a proper understanding of how you say God calls Jesus God depends on several factors. One of which is the proper understanding of the meaning of the Psalm.Let's say you are right. Jesus is not God. You still have to see the fact that:
- God calls Jesus Mighty God.
- At John 1:1 the word is God
- Jesus is prayed to
- Jesus is worshiped
Therefore, you should call on the name of Jesus in prayer and worship and be saved.
No it's not. It's kind of like the different ways Elohim is translated or rendered.First of all, the Hebrew scriptures were first written in Hebrew. Abraham did not speak Greek so proskenuo was not the word used. It was a Hebrew word that means bowed down. The Greek word that was used was in Greek in the new testament which was proskenuo which means worship. Look it up and see for your self.
Second, the WTS translates Proskyneu correctly as worship in other places like Matt. 4:10, John 4:20, and at many many other places. It just plain dishonesty on the part of the JWs bible.
that still doesn't answer my question.Since I am not God, I can only discuss it as best I know it. When the person said to be the Son of God came into Mary's womb, he was an embryo. To the best of my knowledge, embryos don't think. Make of that what you will, please.
That's immaterial. It doesn't answer my question.After reading the above post, since you say he was human like the rest of us, do you believe that Jesus was the only perfect (without sin) man to be on this earth (except for Adam, of course)?
We all come from heaven? Exactly how do you figure? You think my mother did not have sexual relations with my father and an angel spoke to her and I just "came about"?Exactly! Jesus is fully human (therefore, no more divine than any of the rest of us human beings), and is god's gatekeeper. So, please answer my question: what theological tenet allows for human beings to be God's gatekeepers? You just handed me a bunch of disparate bits of scripture, but you didn't answer my question. And you simply complicated matters. If Jesus is fully human (like the rest of us), and Jesus came from heaven, then we all come from heaven. If Jesus is fully human, in what way is he set apart from the rest of us?