The 'Trinity' of Religious Contradiction

[Ceridwen018]

Y'all are wondering why God doesn't go against what we choose and force us to give up evil.

You just said that we don't want evil, so how would he be forcing us?

 

[Mister Emu]

This debate going on, well ok here we go

1. God is Omnipotent
2. God does not want evil to exist
3. Evil exists

If God wanted evil gone it would be, obviously as He is all good He does not want it to exist, but He does not want it to not exist either. That is the most simple explanation.

He wants us to be able to choose from Good or Evil, of course He could destroy evil and show us evil and show us good and whatever we choose in that instant would decide our fate, but He did not, He lets us choose evil, and give us a whole lifetime to come back to Him, thus He is ever merciful. If at the end of your lifetime you still blaspheme againt the Holy Spirit He condemns you to your punishment, thus He is ever just.

and Mr. Sprinkels if you truly submitted to God, admitting that Jesus came to take our sins upon Himself, and asked for His forgiveness you WOULD feel something, the same thing I feel every day when I pray to Him, that thing being His prescence.

at to the Godly Trinity being impossible, this is not the best way to say it as the truth is incomprehensible, are not water, ice, and mist, different? But, are they not at the core the same? How can this be?

and

Could God create a rock too heavy for Him to lift?

God's lifting ability is not determined by weight, or size. With that in mind how could there conceivably be something too heavy for Him to lift? And He does not actually have to lift it Himself, He could merely will it to lift, and in accordance with His will it would lift itself.

Thus every claim I have read against God is denounced(I read to about page 5-8 not sure ).

 

[Ceridwen018]

Good post, Mister Emu! I'm always excited to get new people in this thread so welcome!

If God wanted evil gone it would be, obviously as He is all good He does not want it to exist, but He does not want it to not exist either. That is the most simple explanation.

It's that simple, eh?

He wants us to be able to choose from Good or Evil, of course He could destroy evil and show us evil and show us good and whatever we choose in that instant would decide our fate, but He did not, He lets us choose evil, and give us a whole lifetime to come back to Him,

You have agreed that you think god is omnipotent. Obviously then, god knows if we will ultimately choose good or evil. There is no point for him to give us our 'whole lifetime to come back to him' because he already knows. Unless of course, there is some way to change our fate...however that would mean that god is not omnipotent.

you WOULD feel something, the same thing I feel every day when I pray to Him, that thing being His prescence.

His presence? Or unconscious emotional gratification so that your perception of reality matches actual reality, such as our brains were made to automatically balance the two. Like sugar pills for a hypochondriac I always say...

God's lifting ability is not determined by weight, or size. With that in mind how could there conceivably be something too heavy for Him to lift? And He does not actually have to lift it Himself, He could merely will it to lift, and in accordance with His will it would lift itself.

I don't care if he lifts it with his 'telekinetic powers' or his foot. That doesn't matter. Also, if his lifting abilities are not determined by weight or size, what are they determined by?

Basically, if he can't do it man, it's cool, you know? I mean, it's a tough thing to do, ya gotta give the guy a break...

 

[Mister Emu]

It's that simple, eh?

Yes, it is that simple.

You have agreed that you think god is omnipotent. Obviously then, god knows if we will ultimately choose good or evil. There is no point for him to give us our 'whole lifetime to come back to him' because he already knows. Unless of course, there is some way to change our fate...however that would mean that god is not omnipotent.

You see in reality you have already chosen whether or not to follow God, and are just being born, there this funny thing about time, it does not exist. Time as we know it is merely division of the rotations and revolutions of the earth.

Think of the universe as a page of a book, we continualy look at one word at a time, the words we have already read are still there, and the ones we haven't read yet are already there. God see the whole page, thus You have already done everything that you are going to do in this life, and you have yet to do anything. Every instant is an eternity and every eternity is an instant.

His presence? Or unconscious emotional gratification so that your perception of reality matches actual reality, such as our brains were made to automatically balance the two. Like sugar pills for a hypochondriac I always say...

Yes His presence, and no not unconscious emotional gratification.

And I would have to say more like Tylenol for headaches.

I don't care if he lifts it with his 'telekinetic powers' or his foot. That doesn't matter. Also, if his lifting abilities are not determined by weight or size, what are they determined by?

Let us think of it like this, could there be a word so long you could not read and say it, quite simply no, why? Because length has no bearing on whether or not we can read or say a word. In the same way there is nothing that has a bearing on God's lifting ability.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Yes, it is that simple.

What I meant was that it doesn't make sense. I'm missing the simplicity involved, could you explain?

Think of the universe as a page of a book, we continualy look at one word at a time, the words we have already read are still there, and the ones we haven't read yet are already there. God see the whole page, thus You have already done everything that you are going to do in this life, and you have yet to do anything. Every instant is an eternity and every eternity is an instant.

I pretty much 'agree' with that. So I ask again--why does god put us through this life if he already knows what we're going to do? It's obviously not to give us a chance to change our ways as you claimed.

Another thought: how can we have free-will if 'all the words are already there', so to speak?

Yes His presence, and no not unconscious emotional gratification.

Let me ask you this then: How do you know that it is god's presence you are feeling, as opposed to what i said or the presence of something else, etc.?

Let us think of it like this, could there be a word so long you could not read and say it, quite simply no, why? Because length has no bearing on whether or not we can read or say a word. In the same way there is nothing that has a bearing on God's lifting ability.

So because of this, god's power is limited because he cannot create something which does have bearning on his lifting ability?

 

[hebrew]

There are three basic truths which are shared by almost all religions and faiths:

- god is all powerful
- evil exists in the world
- god does not want evil to exist

Obviously, all three of these truths cannot simultaneously exist. If god were all powerful, and opposed to evil, he could simply do away with it. If he was against evil, and yet evil still existed, he would not be all powerful. Two of these statements can be true, but not all three.

All three can exist; this is where understanding comes in. God is all powerful, his name in Hebrew means power, and his name is YAHAWAH. All things were created through him and by him; INCLUDING EVIL. There has and is no evidence or recording of anyone displaying power on that level (consider his work and miracles bringing the jews out of egypt).The Lord, as the scripture says, creates light as well as darkness, and evil as well as good. IS 45:7 Evil does not exist on its own. Now the Lord is a man of righteousness, and prefers holiness, psalms 7:11, BUT HE ALLOWS EVIL ,and HE CONTROLS EVIL, TO TAKE OVER THE EARTH RIGHT NOW. Now as someone had mentioned earlier, there must be a balance, and evil must exist; but TODAY, evil is done and stands out more on a larger scale than righteousness does. Now when the righteous kingdom is built and established,after the destruction of babylon, then evil will be on a small level. The reason why God allows evil to exist on such a grand today, IS TO PUNISH THE ISREALITES FOR BREAKING THE LAW, STATUES AND COMMANDMENTS. THIS IS OUR HELL, AND EVIL MUST EXIST AND TAKE OVER IN ORDER FOR OUR AFFLICTION AND TRIBULATION. DEUT. 28:15, DEUT 32:21, IS 42:24.
WHOEVER RESPONDS TO THIS REPLY, PLEASE COME WITH THE SCRIPTURES; EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE. Your reply is non-valid when it is not coming from the bible.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

hebrew, you are saying that God wants evil to exist (but only for right now, to punish the Israelites). So you are agreeing that the third premise of the trinity is untrue ("god does not want evil to exist").

 

[Ceridwen018]

All things were created through him and by him; INCLUDING EVIL.

I can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear you say this. Logically, I absolutely agree!

Now as someone had mentioned earlier, there must be a balance, and evil must exist;

Don't you think that god could make things balanced without evil? Don't you think he has that power? I agree with Mr. Spinkles on this one...disagreeing with the third component.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

when there is a balance of all elements, there is harmony. just think of a balance held by the blindfolded statue of a lady near the supreme court. when one is out of balance, you get chaos.

 

[Ceridwen018]

I agree, Gerani. All elements need to be balanced to create harmony. However, my point is that god created those elements and the laws for how they need to be balanced, so he could easily alter them if he wished.

 

[johnnys4life]

Well there would be no knowledge of good and evil in the world if it hadn't been for the original sin committed by Adam and Eve. God made man with free will, and man screwed up. So yes God can create a world without evil, but He wanted to let people choose and learn for themselves. Had there been no evil there would have been no choice to make, we would all be following God because we had no other option, and that's not the kind of love He wanted.
Secondly, just because God is all powerful, doesn't mean He chooses to use His power all the time for everything. It doesn't mean He has to choose to use His power to do what we think He should do. And it doesn't mean He can't choose to let us sit in the mess we created. If you are trying to blame God for evil in the world, you've got 1 finger pointed at Him and 4 others pointed back at yourself.

 

[johnnys4life]

It's like raising a child, if you constantly keep them from facing the consequences of their own actions, they are never going to learn to stop doing wrong. For example, if someone has a kid who's always going to jail, and the parent just keeps bailing them out before they do any time, that kid will just keep on getting arrested. In the same way, God lets evil exist to show us the consequences for not listening to Him. We all have free will, and if we wanted we could all follow God and there would be significantly less evil in the world, so I say it is our doing. God is all powerful, but he let us have a little power, and look what we've done with it.

 

[johnnys4life]

Why do you think God SHOULD have made it so we could all choose good or evil right from the start and not have to live our lives out? If He didn't feel like doing it that way, that's His perogitive.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

LOL, johnnys4life, I'm afraid the arguments you have put forth have already been exhaustively covered in this thread. I really wish people would read some of the thread before posting here...

 

[johnnys4life]

I did read most of it, but I have a baby to take care of!