The Tragedy Of Transgendered Youth

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I don't have solid evidence that it is. My feeling is that perhaps 25% are like me, though not as many actually understand what has happened to them. Perhaps a good way to help is for our culture to stop being so binary and that could be a long time coming.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Not now, but in the past they did just that. Until 1973 the APA identified homosexuality as a mental disorder.

"First published in 1968, DSM-II (the American classification of mental disorders) listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In this, the DSM followed in a long tradition in medicine and psychiatry, which in the 19th century appropriated homosexuality from the Church and, in an élan of enlightenment, transformed it from sin to mental disorder.

In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it.

The APA then compromised, removing homosexuality from the DSM but replacing it, in effect, with "sexual orientation disturbance" for people "in conflict with" their sexual orientation. Not until 1987 did homosexuality completely fall out of the DSM."

Please read the bold in red

When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

In the U.S. religious beliefs, which would be by a huge margin Christian beliefs, are pretty clearly the cause.

The obvious question; how do non-Christian cultures respond to these issues? If everyone is pretty much the same, then Christianity isn't the problem. If it's a problem specific to Christian cultures, however...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Folks with the condition might not have any problems with other noticeable societal anxieties. Someone could go around naked with no problem to public showers, be a public speaker and still not be able to do it... it's very common but not talked about, which tells how much stigma it is.

That's interesting. How it mentions that many people first realize the problem when trying to submit a drug screen, to me anyways, seems to indicate there is some degree of social anxiety, especially given the physiological responses and it including in the definition the "real or imaginary presence of others." I would have thought sufferers would be overwhelmingly suffering from some sort of social anxiety or agoraphobia.
(And, as I finish this post and go to check something I notice under the "general recognition" part of that article it does indeed cover social anxieties)

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

"First published in 1968, DSM-II (the American classification of mental disorders) listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In this, the DSM followed in a long tradition in medicine and psychiatry, which in the 19th century appropriated homosexuality from the Church and, in an élan of enlightenment, transformed it from sin to mental disorder.

In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it.

The APA then compromised, removing homosexuality from the DSM but replacing it, in effect, with "sexual orientation disturbance" for people "in conflict with" their sexual orientation. Not until 1987 did homosexuality completely fall out of the DSM."

Please read the bold in red

When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder

Oh no! Bias contradicting nuance!

 

[Salvador]

I'll pay for his plane ticket to tell these veterans to their face they need to use the women's room because they fail his silly test and standards, which imply he's also challenging their maleness.

Of course, neutered men who can't rape don't concern me; it doesn't matter to me which restroom they use.

Fine then, let's have anybody use whichever gender designated restroom they please; but when some poor lady or girl gets raped by some male sexual predator who takes advantage of this situation, you'll probably wish he wasn't allowed to use the women's restroom.

 

[Jumi]

When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder

Interesting and quite shocking how dumb(as well as degrading) some of the treatments back in the 1950s were:

In the 1950s and 1960s, some therapists employed aversion therapy of the kind featured in A Clockwork Orange to "cure" male homosexuality. This typically involved showing patients pictures of naked men while giving them electric shocks or drugs to make them vomit, and, once they could no longer bear it, showing them pictures of naked women or sending them out on a "date" with a young nurse. Needless to say, these cruel and degrading methods proved entirely ineffective.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The obvious question; how do non-Christian cultures respond to these issues? If everyone is pretty much the same, then Christianity isn't the problem. If it's a problem specific to Christian cultures, however...

I do not see the attacks on these people coming from the secular crowd. In the U.S. it is pretty much from the Abrahamic religions. Of course other religions are in such a small minority that they have no power at all.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Of course, neutered men who can't rape don't concern me; it doesn't matter to me which restroom they use.

Fine then, let's have anybody use whichever gender designated restroom they please; but when some poor lady or girl gets raped by some male sexual predator who takes advantage of this situation, you'll probably wish he wasn't allowed to use the women's restroom.

Seeing as you've admitted to exposing yourself to a woman who was just doing her job in the restroom, I doubt that any of us care about what you think on this subject and longer. Your credibility has been nuked into oblivion. It's obvious that you're just projecting your own predatory tendencies onto others.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Of course, neutered men who can't rape don't concern me.

Fine then, let's have anybody use whichever gender designated restroom they please; but when some poor lady gets raped by some male sexual predator who takes advantage of this situation, you'll probably wish he wasn't allowed to use the women's restroom.

Ah yes, the transsexual predator boogeyman.

How many transgender women have ever been convicted of sexual assault of another woman in a woman's bathroom? How many straight up cis men have been convicted of sexual assault of either a woman in a women's bathroom, or of other men in a men's bathroom? How many cis wiomen have been convicted of sexually assaulting another woman in a women's bathroom? Hint: the transwomen aren't the ones to be wary of.

Honestly, this "but sexual predators" thing is nothing but ad hoc justification of pre-existing bias. You can believe what you like about transpeople, but at least have the intellectual integrity and moral courage to admit your bias, don't try to prop it up with a veneer of legitimacy with such false smears.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I do not see the attacks on these people coming from the secular crowd. In the U.S. it is pretty much from the Abrahamic religions. Of course other religions are in such a small minority that they have no power at all.

I was specifically thinking of comparing cultures outside the US.

 

[Salvador]

"wary" of what? And you didn't answer my direct and explicit question.

Men without testicles can't rape women, so as far as I am concerned they can use whatever gender designated restroom they please; however, women don't know they can't rape, so they might be alarmed to see them in their restroom. So then, men without testicles rightfully should use the men's room or one of those unisex single stalled single toilet restrooms.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Of course, neutered men who can't rape don't concern me; it doesn't matter to me which restroom they use.

But at least maybe we can drop the "urinal test" nonsense now, anyway.

 

[Jumi]

Of course, neutered men who can't rape don't concern me; it doesn't matter to me which restroom they use.

You think "neutered" men (or women for that matter) can't rape? Rape is not really about a penis, but more about a power play.

Quoting from a '92 Washington Post, since it seems to put it quite clearly:

The problem is often in the brain, not the testicles, said Barbara K. Schwartz, director of the Sex Offender Treatment Program at Twin Rivers Correctional Center in Monroe, Wash. A rapist who has been castrated "could still be a phenomenal danger. He can go out and, instead of raping people, he can assault them with broom handles or bottles or beat them up or kill them."

 

[Salvador]

Ah yes, the transsexual predator boogeyman.

How many transgender women have ever been convicted of sexual assault of another woman in a woman's bathroom? How many straight up cis men have been convicted of sexual assault of either a woman in a women's bathroom, or of other men in a men's bathroom? Hint: the transwomen aren't the ones to be wary of.

Honestly, this "but sexual predators" thing is nothing but ad hoc justification of pre-existing bias. You can believe what you like about transpeople, but at least have the intellectual integrity and moral courage to admit your bias, don't try to prop it up with a veneer of legitimacy with such false smears.

I'm concerned somebody might claim he feels like a woman in order to use the women's restroom where he would harass or assault a woman or girl while she is vulnerably exposed. I'm not arguing transgender persons are a problem, but allowing transgender persons to use the restroom opposite their biologically assigned gender, enables any man to sexually prey on a woman or girl while she is exposed and vulnerable.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Men without testicles can't rape women, so as far as I am concerned they can use whatever gender designated restroom they please; however, women don't know they can't rape, so they might be alarmed to see them in their restroom. So then, men without testicles rightfully should use the men's room or one of those unisex single stalled single toilet restrooms.

Men without testicles can absolutely rape a woman, where the definition of rape is penetration. They ABSOLUTELY can sexually assault women where it isn't. Woman without testicles also sexually assault women, and men also sexually assault men. Why is it ONLY transgender rapists you're concerned about? In all of the English speaking world, how many cases are there of transgender women raping other women? Hmm? I bet you a years salary in the time it takes you to find one example of a transwoman raping a cis woman in a public bathroom, I can find 20 examples of a non-transwoman doing so.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'm concerned somebody might claim he feels like a woman in order to use the women's restroom where he would harass or assault a woman or girl while she is vulnerably exposed. I'm not arguing transgender persons are a problem, but allowing transgender persons to use the restroom opposite their biologically assigned gender, enables any man to pray on a woman or girl while she is exposed and vulnerable.

No more than they already are. Again, I bet you rates of cis-women assaulting other cis-women in public facilities are an easy 20:1 compared to transwomen doing it.

 

[Shaul]

"First published in 1968, DSM-II (the American classification of mental disorders) listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In this, the DSM followed in a long tradition in medicine and psychiatry, which in the 19th century appropriated homosexuality from the Church and, in an élan of enlightenment, transformed it from sin to mental disorder.

In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it.

The APA then compromised, removing homosexuality from the DSM but replacing it, in effect, with "sexual orientation disturbance" for people "in conflict with" their sexual orientation. Not until 1987 did homosexuality completely fall out of the DSM."

Please read the bold in red

When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder

So the APA admits it used standards from medicine and psychiatry. Trying to pass the onus to the church post facto is hilarious. Talk about trying to pass the buck for its own screw up! The church doesn’t control the APA, it never has.

Since I am not a Christian, I have no onus to defend its position on homosexuality. But the church never called homosexuality a mental disorder. Its position is that it is a “sin”.

It is a fact. Before 1973 the APA defined homosexuality as a mental disorder. Also if it took them decades and decades and decades to stand up to the Christian Church’s position on homosexuality, that belies it is a decidedly craven, feckless and unscientific organization.

 

[Salvador]

But at least maybe we can drop the "urinal test" nonsense now, anyway.

Those who can pass the urinal test is an indicator of who should not be allowed to use the women's bathroom.

 

[Salvador]

No more than they already are. Again, I bet you rates of cis-women assaulting other cis-women in public facilities are an easy 20:1 compared to transwomen doing it.

Well yeah, there are hardly any real transgender people; so of course, there are too few of them to be statistically significant.