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The System Works! A Quarter of all US children went hungry last year!

blackout

Violet.
People cannot afford to buy American made goods any more. People would rather buy 10 dollar shoes that last a couple months than pay 300 dollars for something that would last for years.

Many of us don't HAVE $300 Rick.

Three hundred dollars can be the difference between a mortgage payment,
or not.

It's so nice how people with $300 to "invest",
can so easily judge those of us without $300 (for anything extra at all).


BTW... My "ten dollar shoes" last me two to three years on average.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Many of us don't HAVE $300 Rick.

Three hundred dollars can be the difference between a mortgage payment,
or not.

It's so nice how people with $300 to "invest",
can so easily judge those of us without $300 (for anything extra at all).


BTW... My "ten dollar shoes" last me two to three years on average.

Hon, did you get my point about cheap China and India stuff polluting our planet?

If you give me another read, I said people cannot afford American goods.

To sum this up, we cannot afford not to pollute.

Let me ask you a question, what if the President passed the cap and trade bill and your electric bill went up 300 a month?

Clean energy is a great idea, (just as quality foot wear is) but in this economy, it is poor timing.

By the way, have I told you that I love you lately UV?

I'm worried about people having to pay 300 more a month for electric. 300 dollar shoes that last three years cost us about 8 dollars a month.

You must be a really good shopper. 10 dollar shoes that last 3 years only cost you pennies a month.
 
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Morse

To Extinguish
Hon, did you get my point about cheap China and India stuff polluting our planet?

If you give me another read, I said people cannot afford American goods.

To sum this up, we cannot afford not to pollute.

Let me ask you a question, what if the President passed the cap and trade bill and your electric bill went up 300 a month?

Clean energy is a great idea, (just as quality foot wear is) but in this economy, it is poor timing.

By the way, have I told you that I love you lately UV?

I'm worried about people having to pay 300 more a month for electric. 300 dollar shoes that last three years cost us about 8 dollars a month.

You must be a really good shopper. 10 dollar shoes that last 3 years only cost you pennies a month.

We could always mimic Germany. Though I haven't looked exactly at what they did, and it'd of course need modification to fit our needs. But Germany brought themselves out of their current economic depression with clean energy.

EDIT: As well, around where I live, there is a sub-group of my power company dedicated to clean energy. If you switch over to that sub-group, your power bill goes up by like 12 dollars a month (As long as you don't consume ungodly amounts of power, then it goes up by like 30 or so)
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
People cannot afford to buy American made goods any more. People would rather buy 10 dollar shoes that last a couple months than pay 300 dollars for something that would last for years.

You might want to try better examples, Rick. Those $10 shoes probably last about a year, or at least you can get $10 shoes that last around a year. That means the $300 shoes would have to last 30 years just to be as good a deal as the $10 shoes. Good luck finding a pair of shoes to lasts 30 years.

Most people would rather buy whatever works out to be cheaper. It just so happens that most expensive shoes don't end up being a deal. I've had $30 pairs of shoes that lasted 4-5 years of wearing them most days. I've had $100 pairs of shoes that lasted 2 years or even less. Cost these days has more to do with style in most cases rather than quality.

Plus, as Violet said, many people don't have $300 to spend on shoes at a certain time. They only have the option of buying $10-20 shoes.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
My shoes cost me just 10 bucks plus tax and I've had them for a couple years now and they're still going strong. :shrug:

Then again, I don't mind if they get scuffed up and worn out. Old shoes are more comfortable anyways.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
During the recent meeting between China and Obama it was reported that China had bought a large majority of the securities sold by America to raise funds to solve the present banking crisis.
China for its part said America must not raise tariff barriers to prevent import of Chinese goods.

The long term prospects for American manufacturing do not look good.
Much of the American software industry is already sub contracted to India.
Japan and other far East countries now own and sell a majority of Cars and Trucks.

Most of this applies equally to the UK

Where will the necessary money come from, to pay off the debts.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Have you ever studied economics, Kathryn? Google Guns versus Butter. It's a basic economic trade off studied in every introductory economics course. Granted, it's more complex than that. But that seems to be the heart of it.

Yes, I've taken economics before and I understand where you're coming from in the sense that we cannot bankrupt our government with debt - for anything from war to social programs - without serious and horrific economic repercussions in every American household - which would create more hungry kids.

My point though is that this isn't what's creating hungry kids in the US at present - though it certainly could happen as our utility bills and taxes increase.

The main cause of hungry kids in the US today is irresponsible parenting.
 

Smoke

Done here.
My shoes cost me just 10 bucks plus tax and I've had them for a couple years now and they're still going strong. :shrug:

Then again, I don't mind if they get scuffed up and worn out. Old shoes are more comfortable anyways.
When I was 19 years old I bought a pair of work boots at a thrift store for $6.95, waterproofed them myself, and wore them for more than twenty years. I had to re-do the waterproofing from time to time, but that's still the best deal I ever got on shoes.
 

Zephyr

Moved on

Do you really expect the people who oppose even minimum wage laws to support a minimum income level? I mean, don't get me wrong, that's fantastic, and I feel a minimum income level is an excellent stepping stone, but we're having people complain that (up here in WA, anyways), requiring employers to pay at least 7 bucks an hour is some major infringement of liberty.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Excellent, cheerful news for those who have been worried the American economic system might not be working as it should -- a quarter of US children went hungry last year. Good thing we spent so much on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan!

A quarter!
Ha!
I say if a kid gets a piece of bread 3 times a day they are eating like kings!

When I as a lad we went days alone on a single piece of bread. Just rediculous, all these studies and such.

What do they expect, every kid to be able to eat turkey on turkey day?

:D
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Ha!
I say if a kid gets a piece of bread 3 times a day they are eating like kings!

When I as a lad we went days alone on a single piece of bread. Just rediculous, all these studies and such.

What do they expect, every kid to be able to eat turkey on turkey day?

:D

You joke, but there has been times where I've had nothing but a small loaf of bread to last me the day.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Do you really expect the people who oppose even minimum wage laws to support a minimum income level? I mean, don't get me wrong, that's fantastic, and I feel a minimum income level is an excellent stepping stone, but we're having people complain that (up here in WA, anyways), requiring employers to pay at least 7 bucks an hour is some major infringement of liberty.

Not surprised. The private sector fought tooth and nail to prevent basic sanitation in europe so that the french didn't have plumbing everywhere until after WW1! Landlords and businesses constantly fought the "imposition" of garbage cans and sewage systems. It's just the way it goes. Keep up the fight.

BTW, there's similar resistance in Canada. After the Mincome experiment, the results were quietly shelved.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
requiring employers to pay at least 7 bucks an hour is some major infringement of liberty.

It is Zephyr. Some folks will not pay that much and the jobs just go away. Instead of making more, you have nothing now.

The real issue here is why anyone would think for a moment that they could sustain themselves on a minimum wage job?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Yes, I've taken economics before and I understand where you're coming from in the sense that we cannot bankrupt our government with debt - for anything from war to social programs - without serious and horrific economic repercussions in every American household - which would create more hungry kids.

My point though is that this isn't what's creating hungry kids in the US at present - though it certainly could happen as our utility bills and taxes increase.

The main cause of hungry kids in the US today is irresponsible parenting.

Methinks "it's caused by irresponsible parenting/families" is not proven and quite likely merely a mantra.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Methinks "it's caused by irresponsible parenting/families" is not proven and quite likely merely a mantra.

Friday I had a business appt with the landlord of a public housing complex. She is trying to coordinate with local businesses to provide training programs for her tenents on getting out of the poverty cycle. Since I am a banker, we decided to sit down together and come up with a workshop on basic banking skills and concepts.

I'm excited about doing the workshop, because at one time I was in the same shoes as many of these people - and I managed to escape that poverty, an abusive relationship, and the need for public assistance - and I truly enjoy empowering others to do the same.

It became apparent in our conversations that though the workshop will be under the guise of learning basics of money management - what it will really be is a workshop on attitudes and avoiding self destructive choices.

See, the basic problem isn't a lack of money. Some of these people (most of them are single moms with several kids) are receiving $2000 a month or more in social security benefits, child support, and THEN food stamps for a family of four or more - in addition to either free or greatly reduced housing costs. Their kids get free meals at school (2 a day).

They are, frankly, working the system.

I have some sources who offer free computer training skills and job placement programs. I teach a class on job interviewing and resume skills. When I asked her how many of her tenents are truly interested in breaking out of this poverty loop and bettering their lives - which ones may be interested in the training - she told me probably one in ten - but that one in ten is who keeps her at her job. The rest of the tenents are constant problems - constantly breaking the rules of the complex (and the law), neglecting their children (why, when they don't even work and could be home all day with their kids???), and generally making poor choices, on a daily basis. She told me that the general attitude of most of these young women is that the state "owes them." They are second and third generation public assistance families and they have absolutely no intention of living any other way.

The problem is so severe that they have to divide the complex into two sections - one for the elderly and handicapped tenents, who are neat, quiet, peaceful, and cooperative tenents - and the single moms, who have family situations involving unsupervised kids, criminal boyfriends, 35 year old grandmothers on drugs, etc, etc. The two groups of people are so disparate that they cannot live side by side.

I know this is a true assessment because at one time in my life I was in the same shoes as these other single moms - but I was determined not to make more choices that kept me in that cycle.

Difference was - I didn't want to be there. I didn't want to be a ward of the state. For the most part, they have every intention of working that system and staying right where they are.

Even if they wanted to be law abiding, responsible citizens, if you are surrounded by women and kids who are NOT headed in that direction, it's very difficult to insulate yourself from that atmosphere of irresponsibility.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Not sure how many of you have actually lived in poverty - abject, crushing poverty that includes public housing, food stamps, no car, no satellite or cable TV, no internet, crime ridden neighborhoods, drug use all around you, drive by shootings, etc.

I have lived this life. I know these people.

I am here to tell you - most of them are scum. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth. Most of them have absolutely no intention of bettering their lives or the lives of their children. Not only that - they sure as HELL don't want to better YOUR life - you're the enemy. You're who took from them, you're DA MAN - they can justify taking anything from you because you took it from them first.

You don't remember taking anything from them? You don't recall doing anything that created the situations in their lives? What are you saying - that you've never met them but you'd gladly volunteer this Thanksgiving down at the food bank?

I have news for you - they'll take your free turkey, and they'll smile at you and thank you (maybe) - but they hate you.

YOU OWE THEM. What's yours is rightfully theirs. Surely whatever you have, you got because you've got the hookup. You haven't worked hard for what you have - it's been handed to you. Somehow - you got whatever you have at their expense.
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Not sure how many of you have actually lived in poverty - abject, crushing poverty that includes public housing, food stamps, no car, no satellite or cable TV, no internet, crime ridden neighborhoods, drug use all around you, drive by shootings, etc.

I have lived this life. I know these people.

I am here to tell you - most of them are scum. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth. Most of them have absolutely no intention of bettering their lives or the lives of their children. Not only that - they sure as HELL don't want to better YOUR life - you're the enemy. You're who took from them, you're DA MAN - they can justify taking anything from you because you took it from them first.

You don't remember taking anything from them? You don't recall doing anything that created the situations in their lives? What are you saying - that you've never met them but you'd gladly volunteer this Thanksgiving down at the food bank?

I have news for you - they'll take your free turkey, and they'll smile at you and thank you (maybe) - but they hate you.

YOU OWE THEM. What's yours is rightfully theirs. Surely whatever you have, you got because you've got the hookup. You haven't worked hard for what you have - it's been handed to you. Somehow - you got whatever you have at their expense.
NIce little rant you got going there.

Problem is that my experience is quite different.
 
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