The System Works! A Quarter of all US children went hungry last year!

[Kathryn]

NIce little rant you got going there.

Problem is that my experience is quite different.

I'm sure there are LOTS of different experiences regarding poverty.

Your experiences don't negate mine, or vice versa.

My point is that there is a large percentage of people on public assistance who lead dysfunctional lives, and who are resentful of those who have more - who feel like society owes them something for nothing, and who have no intention of applying good principles and sound judgment to their lives in order to escape the poverty that they are self perpetrating.

If we are going to try to help them, we have to first acknowledge their attitudes - and WHY they feel that way. Seek first to understand. Only when we understand how and why they think and feel the way they do, can we address behaviors and help them make better choices.

Sorry if I sound callous. Actually, I'm not at all - that's why I lead these workshops in order to help women become empowered and break that cycle.

I'm just realistic enough to admit that most of my time doing this is wasted.

That's ok - if one in ten applies what I can share with them, and this makes a difference in her life and the lives of her children, I consider my time well spent - even if it was "wasted" on nine other bitter, angry and self destructive women.

 

[Kathryn]

Let me add something to this.

When I teach these workshops, these women make quick judgments about me. Why? Because I dress nicely and drive a nice car, and work at a bank. What they don't know is that I bought the clothes I wear teaching these workshops at Goodwill, for about $5. I didn't always drive a nice car and work at a bank. At one time I drove a car that wouldn't even go in reverse, with 200,000 miles on it, and I lived in storage shed with an abusive husband. I lived several weeks of this time on a loaf of cheap white bread and mayonaise - that's it.

Guess why I was in that situation? POOR CHOICES ON MY PART.

I got myself into that mess, and I got myself out. They can too. That's the lesson I want to help them learn.

I am a proponent of calling it as it is and tough love. Only when I stopped making excuses for myself and took responsibility for the ramifications of my choices, was I able to get out of the situation I had put myself into.

 

[.lava]

Let me add something to this.

When I teach these workshops, these women make quick judgments about me. Why? Because I dress nicely and drive a nice car, and work at a bank. What they don't know is that I bought the clothes I wear teaching these workshops at Goodwill, for about $5. I didn't always drive a nice car and work at a bank. At one time I drove a car that wouldn't even go in reverse, with 200,000 miles on it, and I lived in storage shed with an abusive husband. I lived several weeks of this time on a loaf of cheap white bread and mayonaise - that's it.

Guess why I was in that situation? POOR CHOICES ON MY PART.

I got myself into that mess, and I got myself out. They can too. That's the lesson I want to help them learn.

I am a proponent of calling it as it is and tough love. Only when I stopped making excuses for myself and took responsibility for the ramifications of my choices, was I able to get out of the situation I had put myself into.

so if everyone in USA made the right choices, there would not be poverty?






.

 

[McBell]

I'm sure there are LOTS of different experiences regarding poverty.

Your experiences don't negate mine, or vice versa.

Fair enough.

My point is that there is a large percentage of people on public assistance who lead dysfunctional lives, and who are resentful of those who have more - who feel like society owes them something for nothing, and who have no intention of applying good principles and sound judgment to their lives in order to escape the poverty that they are self perpetrating.

Large percentage you say?
Based upon what?

If we are going to try to help them, we have to first acknowledge their attitudes - and WHY they feel that way. Seek first to understand. Only when we understand how and why they think and feel the way they do, can we address behaviors and help them make better choices.

How about the system get set up so that they are not punished for trying to get off it?

Sorry if I sound callous. Actually, I'm not at all - that's why I lead these workshops in order to help women become empowered and break that cycle.

I'm just realistic enough to admit that most of my time doing this is wasted.

That is because you are not changing the system that punishes people for trying to get free from it.

Until the system is set up to encourage people to get out of it, everyone is wasting their time.

That's ok - if one in ten applies what I can share with them, and this makes a difference in her life and the lives of her children, I consider my time well spent - even if it was "wasted" on nine other bitter, angry and self destructive women.

Yes, because I am sure that your knowledge and insight will help all ten equally and that they all have the same chance to get off their lazy, biter, angry and self destructive arses and become rich.

I wonder, does your system have an overnite success option?


Now don't get me wrong.
I do know that there are people who fit your above description of the norm.
However, from my experience they are the exception, not the norm you paint them to be.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Methinks "it's caused by irresponsible parenting/families" is not proven and quite likely merely a mantra.

What do you attribute the child hunger to, Sunstone? And what can we as individuals do to help?

 

[Kathryn]

Hey, Mestemia,

At least I am doing something constructive to help. I can't change the entire system, but I can take time out of my own life to help others. What I do makes a real difference in real womens' lives.

Not to be bragging, but that's more than most people are willing to do. You can vote - or you can vote AND sacrifice your own time to give people tools to help them succeed. Maybe you do one or both - I don't know enough about your situation to comment. Maybe you do a lot more than I do - hopefuly that's the case.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Hey, Mestemia,

At least I am doing something constructive to help. I can't change the entire system, but I can take time out of my own life to help others. What I do makes a real difference in real womens' lives.

Not to be bragging, but that's more than most people are willing to do. You can vote - or you can vote AND sacrifice your own time to give people tools to help them succeed. Maybe you do one or both - I don't know enough about your situation to comment. Maybe you do a lot more than I do - hopefuly that's the case.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

From my perspective, Kathryn, you have nailed one part of the problem and your actions are very admirable.

 

[Sunstone]

What do you attribute the child hunger to, Sunstone? And what can we as individuals do to help?

I suspect that to some large extent we are seeing the results of farming out many of our middle class jobs to other countries combined with flat wage growth over a period of years. The net result is the middle class has been getting poorer.

Now you might imagine that child hunger is confined to the underclass -- to the poorest of us -- to those on welfare. But when the number of children who face hunger is as high as a quarter of all children, that assumption is blown out of the water. It is not merely those people on welfare who's kids are going hungry. Hell, mayby those kids on welfare aren't even going hungry anymore. Instead, it is the children of the working poor whose kids are going hungry. It's the children of families with two parents working three to five jobs who are going hungry. And those children are almost certainly going hungry because their parents jobs pay next to nothing. You see, the good jobs those people would have had 40 years ago have all been shipped off shore. Now they are stuck with $10/hour jobs. Or less.

The notion this is merely a problem of the underclass is nonsense. A quarter of all children is too big for it just to be a problem of the underclass.

 

[autonomous1one1]

...How about the system get set up so that they are not punished for trying to get off it?


That is because you are not changing the system that punishes people for trying to get free from it.

Until the system is set up to encourage people to get out of it, everyone is wasting their time......

Some of us may not be as knowledgeable as you, Mestemia. In what ways do you see that systems punish and which systems are these - State, Federal, local? Are you speaking of the type of thing where some income is supplied for the unemployed who lost their jobs but immediately withdrawn if one shows even minor and temporary success at working?

 

[DallasApple]

The notion this is merely a problem of the underclass is nonsense. A quarter of all children is too big for it just to be a problem of the underclass.

Yep..next time we go out in public count every 4th child you see and that will maybe change some peoples perspective.

Love

Dallas

 

[Kathryn]

so if everyone in USA made the right choices, there would not be poverty?






.

This is a moot point - because this "if" is unobtainable and unrealistic. As Jesus said, "The poor are always with us."

Everyone in the USA will not make the right choices. None of us will make all right choices, ever - probably not even for one successive 24 hour period. So this point can't be argued.

Not all the poor are poor simply because of poor choices. However, MANY of the poor are poor because of bad choices - usually a long series of bad choices. I am not saying that everyone deserves to be poor if they are poor. What I am saying is that MANY people are poor because they've made bad choices in their lives.

Wow, I just made myself dizzy with that paragraph. Sorry for the bad writing there, but I think you can get my point.

The more good choices you make (usually based on morality - right and wrong, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, taking responsibility for your actions, applying sound principles of work, finances, and health, etc) the better your life will probably be.

The more bad choices you make (destructive relationships, substance abuse, skipping out on education for whatever reason, lack of discipline, etc) the worse your life is probably going to be.

And once you start on a downward spiral, it gets harder and harder to extricate yourself from the situation.

However, it is NOT impossible. There are people, organizations, etc who are more than willing to help someone who wants to be responsible and put the energy it will take into the endeavor to climb out of a hole.

But it starts with the individual who needs the help. It starts inside their head and their heart.

I know it's a cliche, but you can't really help someone who isn't willing to help themselves.

 

[McBell]

Some of us may not be as knowledgeable as you, Mestemia. In what ways do you see that systems punish and which systems are these - State, Federal, local? Are you speaking of the type of thing where some income is supplied for the unemployed who lost their jobs but immediately withdrawn if one shows even minor and temporary success at working?

I am mainly talking about the "all or nothing" systems.

Either you get all the services offered or you get nothing.
The thing is..there are several states trying to change their system into a progressive system. but they have not gotten away from the all or nothing mentality, thus leaving their new system severely lacking.

 

[Kathryn]

And I'm not saying that child hunger is not a problem - it's a HUGE problem. No child should EVER be hungry in this land of plenty. It's a travesty - it's a shame. It's a situation that MUST be addressed.

I am saying start with the parents of those kids. Figure out WHY their kids are going hungry. Only then can we truly fix the problem.

We can throw bread at them all day long - but their parents have to give it to them. It's a problem when the parents sell it for crack, or give it to their boyfriend, or never go pick it up because they're, well, just awful parents.

This is like sending food to some parts of Africa - it sits in warehouses while people starve. This is because the root of the problem is not being addressed.

All the food in the world won't help unless the impediments to access to that food are removed.

I am saying that parental irresponsibility is a large part of the problem of access. It's not the only problem - but it's a significant problem.

 

[McBell]

This is a moot point - because this "if" is unobtainable and unrealistic. As Jesus said, "The poor are always with us."

Everyone in the USA will not make the right choices. None of us will make all right choices, ever - probably not even for one successive 24 hour period. So this point can't be argued.

Not all the poor are poor simply because of poor choices. However, MANY of the poor are poor because of bad choices - usually a long series of bad choices. I am not saying that everyone deserves to be poor if they are poor. What I am saying is that MANY people are poor because they've made bad choices in their lives.

Wow, I just made myself dizzy with that paragraph. Sorry for the bad writing there, but I think you can get my point.

The more good choices you make (usually based on morality - right and wrong, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, taking responsibility for your actions, applying sound principles of work, finances, and health, etc) the better your life will probably be.

The more bad choices you make (destructive relationships, substance abuse, skipping out on education for whatever reason, lack of discipline, etc) the worse your life is probably going to be.

And once you start on a downward spiral, it gets harder and harder to extricate yourself from the situation.

However, it is NOT impossible. There are people, organizations, etc who are more than willing to help someone who wants to be responsible and put the energy it will take into the endeavor to climb out of a hole.

But it starts with the individual who needs the help. It starts inside their head and their heart.

I know it's a cliche, but you can't really help someone who isn't willing to help themselves.

For the most part I agree.

However, there is that thing about having to hit bottom before one can start back up...

Seems to me that most people make bad choices because they do not recognize the "breaks" when they present themselves.

 

[Zephyr]

It is Zephyr. Some folks will not pay that much and the jobs just go away. Instead of making more, you have nothing now.

The real issue here is why anyone would think for a moment that they could sustain themselves on a minimum wage job?

You act as if there's anything except minimum wage work around here

But seriously though, why do you think minimum wage laws exist? People try to sustain themselves on minimum wage because they have no other choice! Given the choice between a comfy office job making 30k a year or working at 2 or even 3 retail places because they won't hire you for more than 39.5 hours (gotta deny benefits somehow!) and won't pay more than minimum wage, do you honestly think anybody would choose to work minimum wage?

Not sure how many of you have actually lived in poverty - abject, crushing poverty that includes public housing, food stamps, no car, no satellite or cable TV, no internet, crime ridden neighborhoods, drug use all around you, drive by shootings, etc.

I have lived this life. I know these people.

I am here to tell you - most of them are scum. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth. Most of them have absolutely no intention of bettering their lives or the lives of their children. Not only that - they sure as HELL don't want to better YOUR life - you're the enemy. You're who took from them, you're DA MAN - they can justify taking anything from you because you took it from them first.

You don't remember taking anything from them? You don't recall doing anything that created the situations in their lives? What are you saying - that you've never met them but you'd gladly volunteer this Thanksgiving down at the food bank?

I have news for you - they'll take your free turkey, and they'll smile at you and thank you (maybe) - but they hate you.

YOU OWE THEM. What's yours is rightfully theirs. Surely whatever you have, you got because you've got the hookup. You haven't worked hard for what you have - it's been handed to you. Somehow - you got whatever you have at their expense.

Not sure how many of you have lived around Negroes. I have lived this life. I know these people.

I am here to tell you - most of them are scum. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth. Most of them have absolutely no intention of bettering their lives or the lives of their children. Not only that - they sure as HELL don't want to better YOUR life - you're the enemy. You're who took from them, you're DA MAN - they can justify taking anything from you because you took it from them first.

YOU OWE THEM. What's yours is rightfully theirs. Surely whatever you have, you got because you've got the hookup. You haven't worked hard for what you have - it's been handed to you. Somehow - you got whatever you have at their expense.

See? It's not horribly bigoted because I said "Most"

E: Poor people are subhumans who only care about themselves and only want to take what rightfully belongs to the white ma-I mean the rich. Seriously, did you even think for a second? Replace the word "poor" with "******" and you get something straight out of Stormfront.

 

[DallasApple]

Also not to mention "benefits" arent "free".

MY DIL gets paid 10.50 an hour$40 hours a week) and it cost her $350.00 a month to cover her and my grandbaby with insurence.(without deductable or co-pays or %'s if they actually have to go to the doctor).

I guess the "benefit " is that instead of $600 a month to just have insurence coverage its only $350.She is "lucky".

Too bad she got the swine flu and had a gall bladder stones and had to have surgery(emergency) and she had to miss work (unpaid) and now the girl is sitting on $2,000 dollars (her deductables and %'s ).Thats "with benefits"..Again she makes $10.50 an hour.

Love

Dallas

 

[Kathryn]

Zeph - the reason why your play on words doesn't really work is that race is not "caused" by personal decisions or outside factors, while poverty is. You cannot ever choose your genetic pool, but you can often choose whether or not to do something that either betters or worsens your situation in life.

 

[Falvlun]

The thing is, the way our food industry works, there is a super-processed junk food version and a wholesome version of everything from cheese to black forest ham. The super-processed junk food version (saturated with fats, sugars, flavorings and additives to make up for the loss of flavour and nutritional value during processing) is much cheaper than the wholesome version (no added fats or sugars, no artificial flavours, no preservatives).

You may have a point that if people have a total re-think of their entire diet, ignore the food groups they want and crave and grew up with (not to mention being officially misinformed were both adequate and healthy) and switch to a strange new diet involving something called "lentils", they can eat more cheaply. But this is not a realistic proposal, IMO. When people want cheese, they'll get their cheese fix for as cheaply as possible, which means velveeta or Cheez Whiz rather than fresh, local, organic cheddar. They won't go trawling through the bulk dried beans aisle.

Besides, a lot of grocery stores no longer have a bulk dried foods aisle. They apparently needed the space for an extra aisle of snacks if my local grocery store is any indication.

I recently read the End of Food. I strongly recommend it. If his detailed exploration of the food industry doesn't convince you that junk food is cheaper than wholesome food, nothing will.

I'll add the book to my list. Sounds interesting; Thanks!

Though, thinking that velveeta and cheez whiz is cheaper than regular cheese might be another indication of the myth.

Velveeta: $5.50 for 16 oz.
Cheez Whiz: ~$3.00 for 8oz --> $6.00 for 16oz
Real Cheese: usually $2.50 for 8oz --> $5.00 for 16oz (the link is a sale price, so I quote the normal price.)

 

[Kathryn]

Here are some weekly prices from Brookshires Grocery Store in the town I live in:

Red potatoes - 2.50 for a two pound bag
Boxed potatoes - 1.25 per 6 oz
Potato chips - 2.00 for 11 oz

Fresh collard greens - .89 a bunch
Canned vegetables (various) - .58 per 15 oz
Green Giant boxed frozen veggies with cheese, seasonings, etc - 7 oz for 1.00

Navel oranges - .59 a pound
Canned fruit (mostly water and sugar) - 1.50 for 15 oz

Green onions - two bunches for 1.00
French fried onions in can - 3.00 per can

Sweet potatoes - two pounds for 1.00
Canned in syrup - 29 oz can for 1.25

Fresh Turkey breast - 2.29 per pound
Whole turkey - .79 per pound
Lunchmeat (turkey) - 3.79 per pound
Frozen taquitos - 24 oz box 4.99
Frozen pizza - 6.50

30 pack of Bud Light - 19.99
Pepsi 6-pack - 2.00
64 oz bottle of apple juice - 1.50
prepackaged Lipton tea - 2.99 gallon
Family size 24 box tea bags (makes about 8 gallons)- 1.59 (.20 per gallon)

Brookshire's Food & Pharmacy


Seems to me that eating healthier is less expensive than eating junk or processed foods.

Once again, it boils down to lifestyle choices.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The silence would indicate that you are right.

I will take it one step further. If people took the time to cook, they would save money and be able to buy more food.