The Religiontific Method

Revoltingest · Apr 8, 2016

We've seen an interesting discussion of the scientific method.
It's more complicated & flexible than is typically proffered by educators.
Is there a method for religion?
Or to phrase it better....what methods do you see?

Note:
I see no debating is allowed here.
This is partly why I chose this forum.

Thief · Apr 8, 2016

I have seen a copy of St. Thomas Aquinas ....a lengthy work to bolster the dogmatic beliefs of faith

crossfire · Apr 8, 2016

I can give you the nutshell version of the Buddhatific Method:

From the Simsapa Sutta:

"And what have I taught? 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress': This is what I have taught. And why have I taught these things? Because they are connected with the goal, relate to the rudiments of the holy life, and lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding. This is why I have taught them.

Outline of the method:

Identify stress/unsatisfactoryness/dukkha
Observe how the identified stress/dukkha rises, and the causal factors involved
Observe how the identified stress/dukkha passes away/ceases, and the causal factors involved
Develop a path of practice based upon your observations that will lead to the non-arising and ending of the identified stress/dukkha/unsatisfactory result.
Rinse and repeat

George-ananda · Apr 8, 2016

I don't see any standard religiontific method that all employ. For me as a logical type, the Georgetific method starts with a study of paranormal things that show the scientific method has miles to uncover yet. As an impatient type, I would like to know more before I am dead

if that is possible. Without such paranormal things, the materialist-atheist view would make the most logical sense to me (as a logical type). Next, in my religiontific thinking I look for theories that might explain the data that show the limitations of scientific understanding. My conclusion was that the eastern/Indian religious tradition most intelligently understands how these things work and that the things the west calls paranormal are really just part and parcel of a greater normal.

So the Georgetific method might be summarized as 1) Observation and 2) Consider the various theories that explain the things we observe and 3) Believe what is the most reasonable theory (if any seem reasonable) and call that the most reasonable theory (which is short of calling it proof).

In a way, the Georgetific method resembles the scientific method.

Kilgore Trout · Apr 8, 2016

As near as I can tell, most religionist (or otherwise irrationalist) methods all involve some level of assuming something is true, then coming up with rationalizations after-the-fact which support the assumption, while ignoring/attacking things which don't support the assumption.

I suppose outlined, it would appear something like this:

1. Make assumption.

2. Search/Encounter information.

3. Does information support assumption?

4. If yes, then use as rationalization. If no, then discard or claim information is wrong.

5. Go to #2.

morphesium · Apr 8, 2016

The purpose and success of Scientific method lies in eliminating human errors and human weakness associated with human nature.
The success of "religiontific method" lies in taking advantage of human weakness, human psychology, susceptibility of our thought process and habit formation.

In the past, as humanity progressed into tribal societies and beyond, power always had to be vested with a few for "proper" administration. And it was easy for them to realize that they could guarantee their strong hold the most if they could take advantage of the fact that

The fear of the unknown is always much greater than fear of the known.
There is always the uncertainty of the future.
People had to suffer extreme hard ships for their survival and this demanded something strong to pacify them.

and nothing fits better than the God factor and hence the formation of a religion. This is something very easy to sell and makes the least oppression which they can easily suppress with some magical trickery and stories. Additionally, it has a very addictive nature and can propel itself for generations. Rituals and other holy practices were incorporated into it which not only strengthened the religious bondage, but also helped the religious heads to keep an eye on those who are stepping away from "their religion". Followers are easily made to believe that they get some form of divine protection.

Additionally, just like acquired taste, religious faith is also acquired and it is "habitualised". One of the reasons why it gets acquired is that- through constant signaling in the brain ( rituals, teachings etc ), those signaling paths get stronger in the brain, while the inactive channels deteriorate over time. The more stronger ones channel is (for taste, visuals, thoughts, etc), the more hard it is for one to overcome it or resist it.

Now the best way to make a strong connection is to

expose them at a very tender age.
make the religious thinking process or practice a regular activity, with a high frequencey. If possible, penetrate into every occasional or even daily activities.

Young brains are more prone to accept things without much rational thinking. Take a kid and tell him regularly that the most powerful god (or the one god) is a cross between a pig and an ***, he will accept it. Tell him (show) howling is the best way to please god; and he will start to howl. That is how religion works.

Religion takes advantage of these human weakness (1,2 &3) and our habit forming nature. The more a religion takes advantage of these "religiontific methods", the more a religion is successful, the more the religion is capable of hindering our rational thinking capacity, the more it can suppress our morales.

Guy Threepwood · Apr 8, 2016

Romans 12:2

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God

Wu Wei · Apr 8, 2016

Well lets see..the scientific method is basically
Ask a Question
Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
Communicate Your Results

The Religiontific Method could probably be
Ask a Question
Do Background Research
Construct a Hypothesis
Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
Communicate Your Results

Father Heathen · Apr 8, 2016

The religious method is thus:

1. Write it.
2. Cite it.

Spockrates · Apr 8, 2016

From what I've seen in various Christian circles, there is a tendency to cite biblical texts to support one's views. Though there is sometimes disagreement over what texts are authoritative, or over the reliability of said texts, or over the interpretation of the meanings of said texts, or over whether such texts should be taken literally or figuratively.

allfoak · Apr 8, 2016

Being that the scientific method is so complicated and flexible, perhaps it can be applied to one's religious experience.
I test myself all the time, it is one of the reasons i am here.

Unveiled Artist · Apr 8, 2016

Well, I compare the method used in religion with psychology. Psychology seems to be the middle ground between both what we cant explain and what we can. The DSM-IV criteria seems to help with knowing the method you are asking for.

For example.

1. Therapists usually try to get clients to ask questions to themselves or think about themselves in what they want to acheive in their mental health and life (or so have you).

Religiously: This overlaps with people asking why there are so much evvil in the world, where are we from, why are we here, and to people who dont ask these questions, what keeps you getting out of bed, what keeps you from staying in bed. Simple questions that bring together how we live and what it means to live by yesterday, today, and/o tomorrow's standards.

2. The therapist sometimes, if the issue is not to far surfaced, he may give him small things to do. For example, some reearch may involve I dont know, asking family about his family history (did I have mental illnesses when I was young), things like that. Or it could be researching his own personal life and connecting the dots.

Religiously, he is basically getting to know his origin and goals by connecting with people who care about him. (Not a generalization)

Which leads to

3. The therapist asking him to form a hypothesis. "So what did you find out?" or "how can we use this to helo with X?" or "what are your thoughts about Y?" Basically, leading the client to think of his own big questions by asking him little ones.

Religiously, this technique helps the client start to ask open ended questions, for more research, and more hypothesis. So, now they dont just have an abstract idea "why am I here? or who created me?" but a foundation that other people they know asked that question to. They have a sense of connection.

4. The therapist helps his client to test his hypthosis by doing mini meditation, probably five minutes, during session. Maybe he will ask for him to keep a diary of some sort. Dont know.

Religiously, the client already had a goal (question), motivation (research and creating hypothosis), now they are ready to go forth! Go to church. Meditate. Be with other people who experience the same struggles as themselves. A sense of community.

5. (Skip) The client analyze his "data" or experiences based on his goals, information he received from his sources, community, and self. So basically, his goals or questions are answered

6. Communicating results to therapist, family, stranger, spiritual community, god, whomever seems to be the next step towards varifying the fact of religion based on Religiontific Method Criteria.

Its based on

Recap

1. Asking the question: Pondering or needing to know "who am I; where am I?"
2. Doing research: Learning about the world around you, through books, experiences, conversation, RF
3. Forming a hypothesis: Trying to fit what you learned into one coherent question/statement
4. Testing results: Go for it. Go to church. Be born again. Say Ido.
5. Communicate the results: To ones self, family, community, god, etc.

I figured this by how therapist talk to their patients.

1. Asking the clients to ask questions about themselves outloud
2. Helping clients to know where to start in answering these religious questions of life
3. Letting the client for questions about his own pondering and from what he learnt
4. Working with the clients with the results of those tests in session (say they meditate at home, try a mini session in the office)
5. Communication is the key to all therapy treatments

I know this is splattered. I just went with it.

arthra · Apr 8, 2016

Thanks "revoltingest" for you question:

"Is there a method for religion?"

I take it you mean is there something like a "scientific method" in religion?

Baha'u'llah revealed a Tablet for the True Seeker...at least that's what it's known as today and I mention a few excerpts from it that may relate ...

I think I'll start by quoting the first paragraphs and make what I think are some relevant points in bold print. So here goes:

When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments.

He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error.

That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords.

He must never seek to exalt himself above any one, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vain-glory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison. Material fire consumeth the body, whereas the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul. The force of the former lasteth but for a time, whilst the effects of the latter endureth a century.

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 264

You can read it online in it's entirety here:

http://bahaisoflubbock.org/Writings Pages/index.html

Skwim · Apr 9, 2016

Gotta disagree with your Religiontific Method. I'd say it's closer to.

1) Construct or adopt a concern (fears are best)
2) Devise or adopt a method to meet this need
3) Determined its worth---to be reevaluated either monthly or yearly.
4) Identify your target audience
5) Convince the audience of the
.....a) need,
.....b) it's resolution,
.....c) the value
6) Keep emphasizing 5a, 5b, 5c

.

Wu Wei · Apr 9, 2016

okie dokie

Revoltingest · Apr 9, 2016

Any kind of method you want is good.

Quintessence · Apr 11, 2016

Pretty much what I was going to say, though it glosses over some important constraints of how sciences can construct hypotheses and draw conclusions compared to religions. The sciences are very constrained with respect to the sorts of hypotheses and conclusions that can be drawn.. They must limit themselves to descriptive, impartial assessments of things that can be measured and statistically analyzed. Other areas of human culture, such as religions, the arts, and politics, do not have this limitation. Note that by pointing out the limitations, I don't mean to communicate that this limitation is good or bad. It is what it is, and it has strengths and weaknesses both depending on what is wanting to do with the model.

All that said, conceptualizing the sciences or the arts (of which I'd include religion within that header) as having a single method is rather misleading from the gate. I could describe the method I've used for constructing my own religion, but that is not the method, as there is no the method.

Quintessence · Apr 11, 2016

Speaking of this one's method, I think that could be simply expressed as this:

Reflect upon what one values
Develop practices and tell stories that are an expression of one's values
Be open to inspiration

When it comes to ironing things out, it frequently looks something like general science/research methodology. If I'm designing a ritual, it never goes in my Book until it's been "tested" (or practiced) at least once. I don't want crappy rituals in my Book - I only want ones that work in my Book.

whirlingmerc · Jun 28, 2016

The scientific method doesn't allow for thing 'out of the box' like a creator
additionally what is often referred to as the scientific method is scientific methodology PLUS humanistic secular assumptions, ruling out God acting in history as out of hand

LuisDantas · Jul 9, 2016

Roughly speaking, there seem to be the method of Dharma and the method of Dogma.

They are about as unlike as any two might be, though. To the point that one sort-of challenges the other as a matter of course. And I am not sure about the "sort-of" part.

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