The Rapid Decline of Christianity in the USA

[BilliardsBall]

Divorce rate in Maine correlates with Per capita consumption of margarine (US)

You can't be this smart. You can't be this stupid.

You must be, simply, mocking.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Then let us open the discussion for Zeus, Allah, Thor, Amon, Hecate, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, or Gilgamesh. Same self-circulating claims, evidence, and points.

Just because you have this need doesn't mean others do. I have no need for my soul to be saved, and nothing it needs saved from.

It doesn't declare that because STIs weren't even a concept then. And science, especially with germ theory, states your claim is false. It completely ignores than some STIs are debated as to whether or not they should even be rightfully considered an STI because there are so many ways other than sex to spread them.

I see numbers with no sources. I can just as easily say:
Rate of divorce in West: 75%
Rate of marriages with a cheating partner: 25%
See the correlation?
Without sources, my numbers stand just as credible as yours.

What do you mean, the ancient world didn't understand sexually transmitted disease? Source?

 

[BilliardsBall]

If you are devoted, then adultery won't happen. That's my point. Honesty is also necessary for a healthy, long-lasting marriage.

Then I'm sure you know how many Bible passages insist that spouses also be devoted. And Bible laws and precepts that demand honesty.

You are strengthening my point that following the Bible strengthens marriage and helps insulate against divorce (and illicit sexuality and STDs).

 

[BilliardsBall]

Right, but God and/or God's laws/testaments are not necessary for honesty and devotion to exist. It's actually probably better if you are being devoted and honest for the sake of your spouse rather than for God or to follow his laws.

Okay, let's go further. SOME laws or training or experience are necessary for overall honesty and devotion to exist! Children "naturally" on occasion lie, steal, etc. then conceal their issues/crimes when parents ask.

We might argue over whether God's laws are the best way to help instill character (including honesty and devotion) but I would think it is evident to you that people are neither naturally honest nor devoted. Training starts as a child and continues into adulthood.

(Young) sinners, oops, I mean, people, have to be taught what honesty IS when they fail at BEING honest and are old enough to parse right from wrong.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You can't be this smart. You can't be this stupid.

You must be, simply, mocking.

Of course I'm mocking. Even if your made-up stats were correct, they wouldn't establish the conclusion you were suggesting.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay, let's go further. SOME laws or training or experience are necessary for overall honesty and devotion to exist! Children "naturally" on occasion lie, steal, etc. then conceal their issues/crimes when parents ask.

We might argue over whether God's laws are the best way to help instill character (including honesty and devotion) but I would think it is evident to you that people are neither naturally honest nor devoted. Training starts as a child and continues into adulthood.

(Young) sinners, oops, I mean, people, have to be taught what honesty IS when they fail at BEING honest and are old enough to parse right from wrong.

As John Wooden said, "character is what a man does when nobody is watching." Christianity doesn't teach character; it teaches that somebody is always watching.

Even your language gives it away: when you talk about dishonesty, you describe it as "sin"... i.e. something that displeases God, rather than describing it as wrong in and of itself.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Of course I'm mocking. Even if your made-up stats were correct, they wouldn't establish the conclusion you were suggesting.

You feel strongly there is no close correlation between adultery or fidelity and strong marriages or divorce?

Really? I think of you as a highly intelligent person, so you can't really believe there is no strong correlation between (considered commonly for thousands of years) illicit sexuality and divorce/unhappy marriage.

 

[BilliardsBall]

As John Wooden said, "character is what a man does when nobody is watching." Christianity doesn't teach character; it teaches that somebody is always watching.

Even your language gives it away: when you talk about dishonesty, you describe it as "sin"... i.e. something that displeases God, rather than describing it as wrong in and of itself.

If Christianity doesn't teach character, why are there thousands of verses and hundreds of chapters in both testaments with specifics as to how to live, how to improve one's character, etc.?

You are emphasizing the "someone is watching" as skeptics have a conviction about sin more so than Christians, in some regards!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You feel strongly there is no close correlation between adultery or fidelity and strong marriages or divorce?

Infidelity is one of many factors that can lead to divorce.

Here's a summary of one survey: The 8 Most Common Reasons for Divorce

"Infidelity" was given as a factor in 55% of marriage breakups, so less than "not putting the work into the marriage" (62%) and "too much arguing" (56%), but slightly more than - while in the same ballpark as - "marrying too young" (46%) and "lack of equality" (44%).

Really? I think of you as a highly intelligent person, so you can't really believe there is no strong correlation between (considered commonly for thousands of years) illicit sexuality and divorce/unhappy marriage.

My reaction was more to how you claimed that 50% of married people are unfaithful, and that 50% of marriages end in divorce, and marvelled that these numbers were the same:

- they're not actually the same. Infidelity happens in more like 25% of marriages, and about 40% of marriages end in divorce, not 50%.
- it would make no sense for the numbers to be the same (edit: if infidelity was the driving factor behind the divorce rate), since a marriage has two people (i.e. 50% of people cheating would mean way more than 50% of marriages being affected by cheating).

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

What?

I see no real evidence that getting "saved" does much except for the person's ego.

 

[shmogie]

Interesting thought. From an April 26, 2017 article on the Pew Research Center web site.

"Looking at the U.S. public as a whole, however, the answer to the question of whether more education is correlated with less religion appears to be yes. Among all U.S. adults, college graduates are considerably less likely than those who have less education to say religion is “very important” in their lives: Fewer than half of college graduates (46%) say this, compared with nearly six-in-ten of those with no more than a high school education (58%).

Highly educated Americans also are less inclined than others to say they believe in God with absolute certainty and to pray on a daily basis. And, when asked about their religious identity, college graduates are more likely than others to describe themselves as atheists or agnostics (11% of college grads vs. 4% of U.S. adults with a high school education or less).

At the same time, Americans with college degrees are no less likely than others to report attending religious services on a weekly basis. Roughly a third of U.S. adults with college degrees (36%) say they attend a house of worship at least weekly, about the same as the share of those with some college (34%) and those with a high school diploma or less education (37%) who say they attend services once a week or more.

source

.​

This poses no surprise for Christians. We have known this would be the case for 2,000 years. The assumption that ¨education¨ is the cause is fallacious. The Bible states that rank selfishness, immorality and greed are the cause, seen in todayś USA more than in any other generation. Real Christians are comfortable with this. Things are unfolding as they should.

 

[Skwim]

This poses no surprise for Christians. We have known this would be the case for 2,000 years.

Christians have known for years that Christianity would show great increases in membership and then start to decline in the Twentieth century? What's your source of information for this?

The assumption that ¨education¨ is the cause is fallacious.

Who made such an assumption?

.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Infidelity is one of many factors that can lead to divorce.

Here's a summary of one survey: The 8 Most Common Reasons for Divorce

"Infidelity" was given as a factor in 55% of marriage breakups, so less than "not putting the work into the marriage" (62%) and "too much arguing" (56%), but slightly more than - while in the same ballpark as - "marrying too young" (46%) and "lack of equality" (44%).


My reaction was more to how you claimed that 50% of married people are unfaithful, and that 50% of marriages end in divorce, and marvelled that these numbers were the same:

- they're not actually the same. Infidelity happens in more like 25% of marriages, and about 40% of marriages end in divorce, not 50%.
- it would make no sense for the numbers to be the same (edit: if infidelity was the driving factor behind the divorce rate), since a marriage has two people (i.e. 50% of people cheating would mean way more than 50% of marriages being affected by cheating).

You feel strongly there is no close correlation between adultery or fidelity and strong marriages or divorce?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You feel strongly there is no close correlation between adultery or fidelity and strong marriages or divorce?

It's one factor among many. It's significant, but not the biggest factor that leads to divorce.

 

[shmogie]

Christians have known for years that Christianity would show great increases in membership and then start to decline in the Twentieth century? What's your source of information for this?


Who made such an assumption?

.

Read the Books of Daniel and Revelation. Succinctly, it is said that in a time of vastly increased knowledge, immorality, greed and hedonism there would be a falling away in the Church. No where is it said that this would occur in the 20/21 centuries, nevertheless this along with many other indicators, it seems pretty apparent to me, as well as many millions of others.

 

[shmogie]

I see no real evidence that getting "saved" does much except for the person's ego.

ergo, you aren't saved.

 

[Skwim]

Read the Books of Daniel and Revelation. Succinctly, it is said that in a time of vastly increased knowledge, immorality, greed and hedonism there would be a falling away in the Church. No where is it said that this would occur in the 20/21 centuries, nevertheless this along with many other indicators, it seems pretty apparent to me, as well as many millions of others.

Sorry, but no one is going to search through any book of the Bible trying to find someone's particular source of information. You'll have to be far more precise: chapter and verse.

.

 

[Jose Fly]

Read the Books of Daniel and Revelation. Succinctly, it is said that in a time of vastly increased knowledge, immorality, greed and hedonism there would be a falling away in the Church. No where is it said that this would occur in the 20/21 centuries, nevertheless this along with many other indicators, it seems pretty apparent to me, as well as many millions of others.

It's not really going out on a limb to predict about a religion "One day people will stop believing this".

 

[BilliardsBall]

It's one factor among many. It's significant, but not the biggest factor that leads to divorce.

Does fidelity in marriage strengthen marriages or not?

Does fidelity in marriage reduce STDs or not?

 

[Muffled]

Divorce rate in Maine correlates with Per capita consumption of margarine (US)

I believe that must mean that it is propitious to butter up your ladies or simply that a man could not conceive of leaving a good cook.