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The Rapid Decline of Christianity in the USA

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Is it reasonable for you to forgive an ignorant omission? Yes. Is it reasonable for you to forgive without consequence willful disobedience? No.
To someone who doesn't accept that the Bible was written or inspired by God, disobeying the commandments in the Bible is disobeying some ancient human author, not disobeying God.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What is the purpose of going outside the Bible to prove that the Bible is true in the sexual area? I've already demonstrated to my satisfaction that the Bible speaks truth in all areas.

Let's give an example of such reasoning:

1. Wave a magic Bible wand so that all unmarried persons obey the Bible (no sex before marriage, no sex outside of marriage). STDs are gone. Poof! Divorce rate plummets. Poof!

2. God is right.

3. See # 2 above.

4. No, stop arguing, see #2 above. Read #1 more slowly this time, too.
And do you have a "magic Bible wand"?

If you are taking my evidence for a "no" then your comment about my honest was sarcasm, not appropriate since I did the following:

1. Said I don't need to go outside the Bible to prove illicit sexuality is wrong, based on my knowledge of the Bible as always relevant, always truthful.

2. Went ahead anyway, out of courtesy, to explain how biblical limits on human sexuality will bless marriages and end STDs.

3. Do you want peer-reviewed papers "proving" that fewer sexual partners helps curb STDs? That monogamy strengthens (most) marriages? Really?!
This reminds me of the people who tell me that all we need to do to stop people from speeding is lower the speed limit.

BTW: where did you get the idea that the Bible promotes monogamy?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
However if one is ignoring Jesus or working contrary to Him is such a person really acting as a Christian?
Even still, any and every sin is an act of working contrary to god, and the only one who reserve the right to judge such things is god himself. Christianity inherently does not allow for the "no true Scots" position, because taking such a position has a Christian doing what only god is supposed to do.
You accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior or not and if you did why would you then reject something so good?
It was poisoning me emotionally. I realized it wasn't good. I had a moment of doubt, read the Bible to strengthen my faith, but reading what is actually in the Bible completely incinerated my faith. I was reading of some of the most cruel and sadistic things I had (and still have) read, and following this god left me in a state where I were I would have eagerly greeted death with open arms. God left me with many emotional scars, but yet even so cutting him out of my life threw me into a downward spiral. But my recovery has been going just fine, and I've obtained levels of happiness that I didn't even know existed. I purged the poison from my body, and as the prognosis is good.
I believe God answered your prayer in the contrary which is why you are not dead. Elijah prayed to die but was taken up alive in a chariot instead.
God never answered my prayers.
Again I don't believe you ever had God but do agree that whatever it was that was holding you back you managed to divest yourself.
Again, see my comment about judging things you know nothing of. God was all I had then. Always loving and worshiping god, and always having faith and trust in him. But yet I'd wake up and go back to sleep for a few more hours because I was so depressed and miserable that nothing else mattered.
You can never divest yourself from God.
I have, and I don't see it as "divesting." Rather, "liberating" is the term that comes to mind.
He loves you and will always seek what is best for you.
Then why is it so he made me in such a way that would cause incredible pain and suffering? And, yes, there is a difference between the temptation of wanting to curse god over a series of unfortunate events (something god maliciously allowed, permitted, and encouraged against Job) and the temptation to curse god over a life that leaves you wishing that you did die at birth instead of being saved (I nearly didn't). That is how much damage god did to me.
What you are saying, from my perspective, is my abusive ex loves me and always wants what's best for me. But he doesn't. He is one of those exes who steals your confidence and self-esteem, who degrades you and then says I love you. And giving up the life I've gained, the tremendous mental health boost since I kicked him out? When he was in my life, I had no real motivation. Without I've reached a point where I can say I've had pieces of my art on display in an art gallery. And you think I should go back to that?

I believe that had nothing to do with God either. No doubt you attributing to God things He does not do.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
What is the purpose of going outside the Bible to prove that the Bible is true in the sexual area? I've already demonstrated to my satisfaction that the Bible speaks truth in all areas.

Let's give an example of such reasoning:

1. Wave a magic Bible wand so that all unmarried persons obey the Bible (no sex before marriage, no sex outside of marriage). STDs are gone. Poof! Divorce rate plummets. Poof!

2. God is right.

3. See # 2 above.

4. No, stop arguing, see #2 above. Read #1 more slowly this time, too.



If you are taking my evidence for a "no" then your comment about my honest was sarcasm, not appropriate since I did the following:

1. Said I don't need to go outside the Bible to prove illicit sexuality is wrong, based on my knowledge of the Bible as always relevant, always truthful.

2. Went ahead anyway, out of courtesy, to explain how biblical limits on human sexuality will bless marriages and end STDs.

3. Do you want peer-reviewed papers "proving" that fewer sexual partners helps curb STDs? That monogamy strengthens (most) marriages? Really?!

Your claim that the Bible is always right is just that ... a claim. It isn't evidence. You are using the claims of biblical authors to support your claims.

That is untrue. I gave two examples: marriages helped and STDs curbed by following the laws and precepts in the Bible regarding human sexuality.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
As if divorce can never be the better thing to do. And, as we all know, Christians seldom divorce.

"Study: Christian Divorce Rate Identical to National Average

After months of revived debate over divorce and its increasing acceptance among Americans, a new study affirmed born again Christians are just as likely as the average American couple to divorce.
The Barna Group found in its latest study that born again Christians who are not evangelical were indistinguishable from the national average on the matter of divorce with 33 percent having married and divorced at least once. Among all born again Christians, which includes evangelicals, the divorce figure is 32 percent, which is statistically identical to the 33 percent figure among non-born again adults, the research group noted."

source



Errr, . . . . a claim is not reasoning.

And just to note, I can see why you'd limit the demonstration to "your satisfaction." ;)

.

It is goalpost shifting to say Christians divorce often, since I was suggesting that if all persons (which "all" would include Christians as well as skeptics) followed the Bible's sexual laws and morals marriages would be strong and STDs eliminated or nearly eliminated.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It is goalpost shifting to say Christians divorce often, since I was suggesting that if all persons (which "all" would include Christians as well as skeptics) followed the Bible's sexual laws and morals marriages would be strong and STDs eliminated or nearly eliminated.
And your implication that the principle reason for divorce rest in having sex outside marriage is ludicrous.

ReasonsForDivorce.gif

NOTE that infidelity only accounts for 27% of the reasons.

.

.
 

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
declining-churchmike.jpg


I'm not posting this to throw it in the faces of Christians, but to establish the fact and ask:

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS HAPPENING?

What has, or hasn't, Christianity in America done to send it into such a tail spin?
The following assortment of visuals are posted without comment and meant to give you something to think about.



70%2BPercent%2BOf%2BAmericans%2Bare%2BSelf-Professed%2BChristians.jpg
CzFMip5UkAA6gaU.jpg

usa-today-change-in-other-christians-from-1990-to-2008.png
download
85
PewReligionCharts.png
eucxntpxkeomv1vamuvhea.gif
eb53vlq9y0sv5hkciitsnw.png


.
Couldn't all of these statistics be explained by...immigration? Have any of these numbers been adjusted for immigration? Can you show raw numbers of xtians growth (decline)? I.e. how many xtians now vs then rather than % xtians now vs then. If millions of people immigrate with non-christian beliefs, obviously the "%" of xtians will go down.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Couldn't all of these statistics be explained by...immigration? Have any of these numbers been adjusted for immigration? Can you show raw numbers of xtians growth (decline)? I.e. how many xtians now vs then rather than % xtians now vs then. If millions of people immigrate with non-christian beliefs, obviously the "%" of xtians will go down.
Interesting question, but the answer is, nope.

pbzas6b3fe2xu3pzc3-7rq.png

IN SHORT. In seven years the Christian population in the USA dropped by almost 5%, while the population of those belonging to a non-Christian religion dropped by 0.2%

% Christian.. %Non-Christian
...religion............religion

2008......80.1.............5.3

2015......75.2.............5.1
_________________________
Change...4.9↓............0.2↓​
 
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FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
Interesting question, but the answer is, nope.

pbzas6b3fe2xu3pzc3-7rq.png

IN SHORT. In seven years the Christian population in the USA dropped by almost 5%, while the population of those belonging to a non-Christian religion dropped by 0.2%

% Christian.. %Non-Christian
...religion............religion

2008......80.1.............5.3

2015......75.2.............5.1
_________________________
Change...4.9↓............0.2↓​
Thanks!
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
declining-churchmike.jpg


I'm not posting this to throw it in the faces of Christians, but to establish the fact and ask:

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS HAPPENING?

What has, or hasn't, Christianity in America done to send it into such a tail spin?
The following assortment of visuals are posted without comment and meant to give you something to think about.



70%2BPercent%2BOf%2BAmericans%2Bare%2BSelf-Professed%2BChristians.jpg
CzFMip5UkAA6gaU.jpg

usa-today-change-in-other-christians-from-1990-to-2008.png
download
85
PewReligionCharts.png
eucxntpxkeomv1vamuvhea.gif
eb53vlq9y0sv5hkciitsnw.png


.
I don't like it's conclusion but it looks like you made an informed post. Religions like most things grow in one place and shrink in others and this is in continuous flux over time. Wouldn't that pretty much seem to be inevitable unless it was at a break neck pace or from / to extremely emphatic locations. If it remained perfectly static then that would be a real head scratcher. Before I respond to your specific question I want to point out that Christianity is growing by the equivalent population of Nevada globally every year. So the faith in general is thriving.

Any so your specifically asking why Christianity is on a downward trend in the US currently and you want to know why, correct?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I don't like it's conclusion but it looks like you made an informed post. Religions like most things grow in one place and shrink in others and this is in continuous flux over time. Wouldn't that pretty much seem to be inevitable unless it was at a break neck pace or from / to extremely emphatic locations. If it remained perfectly static then that would be a real head scratcher. Before I respond to your specific question I want to point out that Christianity is growing by the equivalent population of Nevada globally every year. So the faith in general is thriving.

Any so your specifically asking why Christianity is on a downward trend in the US currently and you want to know why, correct?
Yup. What has, or hasn't Christianity in America done to send it into such a tail spin?


.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
What is the purpose of going outside the Bible to prove that the Bible is true
This can be applied to so many things. What is the point of going outside Lovecraftian lore to prove the Great Old Ones exist and the Necronomicon is true?
STDs are gone. Poof! Divorce rate plummets. Poof!
Doesn't necessarily work like that because some STDs can be contracted non-sexually, and parents can pass them to children. And it wouldn't get rid of divorce.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
This can be applied to so many things. What is the point of going outside Lovecraftian lore to prove the Great Old Ones exist and the Necronomicon is true?

Doesn't necessarily work like that because some STDs can be contracted non-sexually, and parents can pass them to children. And it wouldn't get rid of divorce.

There is little point--since Lovecraft wrote fiction and the Bible writers claimed to be writing factual books. That is the perceptible difference. If someone says Lovecraft or Tolkien or George Lucas has saved them, they are speaking metaphorically--but about our need for soul satisfaction and soul saving.

Yes, you are right. Let's clarify. Biblical sexuality would end 99.5% of STDs and strengthen many, not all marriages to avoid divorce. But have you noticed?

1) Rate of divorce in the West - 50%

2) Rate of marrieds cheating in the West - 50%

You see no close correlation?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
And your implication that the principle reason for divorce rest in having sex outside marriage is ludicrous.

ReasonsForDivorce.gif
NOTE that infidelity only accounts for 27% of the reasons.

.

.

There are legal and fiscal reasons for declaring certain factors in divorce proceedings. For example, citing incompatibility can help a parent retain child custody when it's something else.

I've seen the approximated following statistics:

Married adulterers in the West: 50%

Divorce rate in the West: 50%

There is no close correlation?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
There are legal and fiscal reasons for declaring certain factors in divorce proceedings. For example, citing incompatibility can help a parent retain child custody when it's something else.

I've seen the approximated following statistics:

Married adulterers in the West: 50%

Divorce rate in the West: 50%

There is no close correlation?
Care to tell us where you've seen these statistics?

.
 
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