The Pope gives Atheists some credit

[Jollybear]

You are wrong, there is no evidence for god, there is opinion and faith. If evidence existed your faith would be void.

And thats just it, my faith is very little, because there is lots of evidence.

What X?

Intelligent design. Apparitions, near death and out of body and veridical (ESP) experiences.

No evidence, same way as i dont believe in the fsm or magic

Its alot bigger then that.

 

[Jollybear]

Debatable,

Its debatable that theres evidence for God or debatable that i see evidence for God? What one did you mean there?

but I was referring to the question you posed.

I still dont understand how i was dishonest. Do explain more.

But, im getting really use to atheists in general calling me dishonest. It does not convince me i am dishonest. In fact, it just convinces me more and more that there position is wrong and they got hardly nothing to defend it with.

 

[Father Heathen]

Its debatable that theres evidence for God or debatable that i see evidence for God? What one did you mean there?

That what you think you see would past the muster of being legitimate evidence.

I still dont understand how i was dishonest. Do explain more.

You know exactly why your remark would be considered infantile.

But, im getting really use to atheists in general calling me dishonest. It does not convince me i am dishonest. In fact, it just convinces me more and more that there position is wrong and they got hardly nothing to defend it with.

Who said I identified as an atheist?

 

[Jollybear]

That what you think you see would past the muster of being legitimate evidence.

Oh of course people would debate it, but, truth is truth whether its disagreed with or not. And evidence is evidence whether anyone sees it as such or not.

You know exactly why your remark would be considered infantile.

I dont consider it infantile. You do, yes.

Who said I identified as an atheist?

Im assuming you are, or are you agnostic? Or something else?

 

[Father Heathen]

Oh of course people would debate it, but, truth is truth whether its disagreed with or not. And evidence is evidence whether anyone sees it as such or not.



I dont consider it infantile. You do, yes.



Im assuming you are, or are you agnostic? Or something else?

How old are you? That's a serious question, not a rhetorical one.

 

[Jollybear]

How old are you? That's a serious question, not a rhetorical one.

39, you?

And asking my age does not answer my questions.

 

[Father Heathen]

39, you?

And asking my age does not answer my questions.

Okay, I was expecting younger. A lot younger, what with this silly "atheists are all dummy doo-doo heads" mindset you have going on. Do beliefs that conflict with your own make you feel insecure?

 

[Jollybear]

Okay, I was expecting younger. A lot younger, what with this silly "atheists are all dummy doo-doo heads" mindset you have going on. Do beliefs that conflict with your own make you feel insecure?

Calling me a child is nothing but ad hominum.

And you still didnt answer my questions.

Beliefs that conflict with my own dont make me doubt my views, they make me think your crazy for holding yours.

It makes me wonder why dont these folks see what i clearly see.

It makes me scratch my head and have that weird look on my face like >

 

[Jollybear]

Okay, I was expecting younger. A lot younger, what with this silly "atheists are all dummy doo-doo heads" mindset you have going on. Do beliefs that conflict with your own make you feel insecure?

You know what? I just bin thinkin and i had a thought. I think YOU are getting insecure and thats shown via calling me a child.

 

[Revoltingest]

But when you blame the entire Church for this, the vast majority of people whom are undoubtedly innocent, you are doing "the devil's work" by......

Wait....he is the one doing the Devil's work by calling the
entire church on the carpet for tolerating systematic child
molesting from the highest to the lowest level?
Pressure for change has come from outside the church rather
than from within. This is indeed high praise for Old Scratch.

 

[Father Heathen]

You know what? I just bin thinkin and i had a thought. I think YOU are getting insecure and thats shown via calling me a child.

"I know you are but what am I."

 

[pearl]

Thank you so much for that quote.

Pius assumes the formation of conscience is through catechesis. But when there is a seeming contradiction, ultimately it is the conscience alone before God.

 

[pearl]

There's a difference between what I as an educator within the Church can teach versus what I as a Catholic personally believe.

Because in the role of priest, catechist, Catholic theologian one is speaking with the official authority of the Church.

 

[ChristineM]

And thats just it, my faith is very little, because there is lots of evidence.



Intelligent design. Apparitions, near death and out of body and veridical (ESP) experiences.



Its alot bigger then that.

If there were valid evidence then it would be published, with many papers written by eminent people describing and evaluating that evidence. Could you please provide links to some of this evidence.

ID is an assumption based on confirmation bias, there is no evidence of ID.

The rest are in the mind, there is consensus that apparitions, near death and oob experiences exist as thought processes .There is no evidence that god did it.

And esp is woo, here is what berkeley university has to say on the subject
ESP: What can science say?


The faith is strong in you, so strong that you consider it evidence.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I dont consider it infantile. You do, yes.

I agree with @Father Heathen's assessment that this earlier quote of yours:

So in otherwords the pope is saying its better to be stupid then to be a hypocrite.

I think its better to be smart, PLUS not a hypocrite. Both together is better.

could only have been made from a juvenile or immature frame of mind. You blatantly equated atheists with "stupid." If I did that substituting "Christian" you'd probably jump all over it and have yourself a hissy fit.

Your second sentence is no peach either. Calling yourself "smart" - one of the more sure signs that the person blathering on, making such claims simply isn't. And it's quite obvious that you think of yourself as both smart and not hypocritical. How about the bits within the scriptures of the Christian faith that proclaim you should "love your neighbor" and even "love your enemy?" Is calling a whole swath of people at once "stupid" loving in any way? Even if you don't consider atheists your "enemy," are they not, at least metaphorically, your neighbors? Considering the faith you supposedly practice, I see hypocrite written all over your words. Almost nothing but, being completely honest.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Which was estimated at no more than 2% of priests at its peak, and is way down from there. However, even 2% is too high as even if it were only 2 people.

But when you blame the entire Church for this, the vast majority of people whom are undoubtedly innocent, you are doing "the devil's work" by stereotyping and demonizing the entire body, which violates the Commandment that we are not to "bear false witness" against each other.

On top of that, do you honestly think that even the apostles didn't sin? And aren't you aware that Paul warns of those people who will cause division within the community, which is what you are doing?

I don't care if "most people would agree" as you posted because morality is not based on there being a majority, especially since the Church was very much a minority in eretz Israel and every country in the rest of the world until the 4th century. Jesus didn't ask his followers to take a vote on what's moral or immoral, BB.

If you don't like going to a Catholic Church for whatever reason, then don't go, but when you violate basic Christian decency through stereotyping and name-calling, then I think you should maybe do some introspection in regards to your own faith. If the assembly you belong to somehow tells you that what you did is moral and befitting of Jesus' teachings, then let me recommend you find a new assembly that actually teaches what Jesus and the apostles actually taught is moral.

Enough.

2% or 100%, the issues isn't "how many paedophiles" but Rome's continued, abiding cover up. Paul and others made statements indicating that those in the cover up aren't born again Christians.

 

[metis]

2% or 100%, the issues isn't "how many paedophiles" but Rome's continued, abiding cover up.

No doubt that the Church hierarchy reacted much too slowly as it went into a defensive mode-- much like you have done on this thread. Instead of admitting and maybe even apologizing for your use of stereotyping and bigoted statements, you continue to try and cover up what you've posted here.

Paul and others made statements indicating that those in the cover up aren't born again Christians.

"Let he who is without sin caste the first stone", BB. Also, Paul certainly did not refer to the "cover up" since it's almost almost two centuries later.

So, are you "born again" even though you use stereotyping, bigotry, and now lying on this thread? I'm not judging you, but you certainly have judged yourself, BB. The Church has apologized and put new rules into place in case you don't follow the news, but can even admit that what you posted is unethical? Is your ego more important to you than being "born again"?

 

[KelseyR]

Pope Francis said in his first General Audience of 2019 that it is better to be an atheist than a churchgoing Christian who hates other people. In 2017, he suggested it was better for one to be an atheist than a Catholic who leads a hypocritical double life.

Wow, a Pope who is calling out those who claim to be Christian.

 

[KelseyR]

That's great, but it won't elevate the non-hypocritical Catholic above the atheist.

 

[dingdao]

That's great, but it won't elevate the non-hypocritical Catholic above the atheist.

We could argue the definition of hypocritical Christian. There is a lot in the Bible and less then 50% is being preached. Most people who self identify as atheist - that is not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim - have a set of ethics that are not easily twisted (dogma).