1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The Pagan Christ

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    Sense we are coming upon Easter thought this would be interesting and just see how many people agree with the idea that the Pagan community came up with the myths of Jesus.

    Here is the video
     
  2. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    3,023
    Ratings:
    +949
    Religion:
    Catholic
    I lasted 1 min. 23 seconds... Then I got bored.
     
  3. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    Well at least you tried.
     
  4. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    941
    Ratings:
    +375
    Religion:
    Xian
    The Pagan Christ
    The Jesus dude.
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    15,079
    Ratings:
    +1,544
    The Pagan Christ

    Paul hijacked Jesus' true teachings and replaced then with the pagan teachings and the "Sheep", unaware of this, were made pagans. This was all done in the name of Jesus:

    "such as virgin birth, deity father, star in the east, raising of the dead, descent into hell, crucifixion, resurrection, and others. Harpur claims that virtually all words and actions attributed to Jesus in the gospels "originated thousands of years before."[4]"
    The Pagan Christ - Wikipedia

    The question arises, was Paul the seed of the Anti-Christ that grew up and spread into the world as Christianity?

    Regards
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    27,628
    Ratings:
    +11,377
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    If Paul was supposedly so far off the real mark, then why did the Twelve even give him the time of day let alone have Paul speak for them in the diaspora? According to Acts, Paul met at least three times with Peter and the others, plus there was also written correspondence between them. On top of that, the various letters by the others don't tell the flock to ignore Paul.

    When I see the word "pagan" attached to Christianity, it tells me that whomever posts it has an "agenda" that defies logic. All societies learn from one another, and it's common practice for certain "pagan" symbols and activities to be used but usually modified to fit the receiving culture's mores and folkways. Therefore, it's not so much important what the first society may have believed but what the receiving society converted it to.
     
  7. nightshadetwine

    nightshadetwine New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +6
    I think it's pretty accurate. There's a lot of parallels between "pagan" religion and Christianity. A lot of scholars have pointed this out. The concept of a dying and resurrecting savior predates Christianity. You can find most of the motifs in the NT writings in earlier "pagan" stories/religions. I've been able to trace most of them to earlier sources so I think it's highly likely that the early followers of Jesus were influenced by "pagan" cults and stories. I'm not saying there wasn't a historical Jesus though.

    If you're interested, I provide sources for this in a thread I started on a reddit forum. You can find a lot of sources in my original post and my replies to other users.

    Jesus is most likely a continuation of Osiris and Dionysus : DebateReligion
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    27,628
    Ratings:
    +11,377
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    My problem with the above is that by using the word "pagan", the common implication and interpretation is that it's dealing with false religion. I would rather see one use the word "borrowed" as all societies learn from other societies.

    IOW, there really is no such thing as there being a "pure religion" that somehow experienced and/or invented everything on its own.
     
  9. nightshadetwine

    nightshadetwine New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +6
    I agree. That's why I put the word "pagan" in quotation marks. I don't see the Abrahamic religions as being completely separate and unrelated to other religions. All these Ancient Near Eastern and Greco-Roman religions came into contact with each other and influenced each other. Judaism and Christianity didn't just drop from the sky.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    Well the idea is not that Paul started the idea of Paganism, Paul did not write the new testament. The Pagan Christ says that Pagans, Constantine came up with these beliefs.

    We don't know who wrote the new testament, but there are some saying now it was Greek royalty because of the way it was written in a manner that only Greek royalty knew how to and that the Flavians wrote the new testament. That's another video but its still a part of the belief that Pagans started Christian beliefs.

    Considering that most of the main beliefs of Jesus were Pagan based its a lot more then just borrowing a few beliefs from Paganism.
     
  11. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    Thank you.
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    27,628
    Ratings:
    +11,377
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    Several N.T. books are attributed to Paul, plus Luke wrote for Paul. At that time, it was common for a student to attribute a correspondence to his mentor.

    Constantine was not in any way a theologian, which is why he ordered bishops to convene to decide on the Christian canon and also to deal with the issue of what came to be known as the "Trinity". Other than being the one who initiated what became known as the Council at Nicea, he was not a factor in deciding Canon Law nor basic Catholic beliefs.

    It was not written by Greeks but written in Koine Greek, which was the language mostly used in the Christian diaspora. Where the Greek influence more came in was the use of "reason" and also the concept "essence" taught by Aristotle and Plato especially.

    OTOH, when the canon for Judaism was selected, they purposefully cut off the canon just before the Greek influence spread to eretz Israel because of fear of contamination of their scriptures, which is one main reason why the Apocrypha was not allowed into that canon.

    Not at all true. The mistake that some make is that they look for parallels in other religions and/or locations and then contribute the main Christian beliefs to them. Yes, there's some influences, no doubt, such with the Greek philosophers, but the main teachings within Christianity mostly reflect its Jewish roots, which is why so many verses in the OT are quoted in the NT.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    15,079
    Ratings:
    +1,544
    "just borrowing a few beliefs from Paganism".

    sorry, these were not just a few unimportant belief., Paul borrowed the core beliefs of the Modern-Christianity from "Paganism". Instead of making pagans followers of Jesus' and his teachings, Paul cleverly made the "sheep" followers of Paganism in the name of Jesus. Jesus never authorized Paul to do such wrong acts. It is making Christianity an Anti-Christ, not a trivial thing at all. If truly understood, it makes Paul the "Wolf in the sheep's clothing"* as Jesus foretold . Right, please?
    Sorry, no disrespect intended to anybody's faith, they may continue believing whatever they want to.

    Regards

    ______________

    *Matthew 7:15 King James Version (KJV)
    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:15 - King James Version
     
    #13 paarsurrey, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    This is a much better video then that boring one and it explains how the new testament was written by Greek Pagan royalty,not by Paul.
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    5,554
    Ratings:
    +1,638
    Religion:
    Christian
    Paul wrote at least thirteen letters that are included in the New Testament. Scholars have debated whether or not Hebrews was written by Paul; if Paul wrote Hebrews, that would make his total contribution to the Bible fourteen books.
     
  16. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    They have proven Paul did not write the new testament.
     
  17. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    5,554
    Ratings:
    +1,638
    Religion:
    Christian
    Right.. He wrote about 13 or 14 letters and that isn't all of the NT.
     
  18. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,930
    Ratings:
    +1,141
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    I've seen videos say that the way in which his letters were written was in a way that He could not have been the author , the author is unknown.

    The video I put up suggests that the Flaviuns wrote the new testament.
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    5,554
    Ratings:
    +1,638
    Religion:
    Christian
    Both Timothy and Luke worked with Paul.. From what I have read they could either have written or helped write some of Paul's letters.
     
  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    53,709
    Ratings:
    +12,684
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    I didn't watch the video, but I did read the book.

    Harpur didn't do a great job connecting the dots between Egyptian mythology and the Christ myth.

    It gets worse when you look at his sources: 3 fringe historians, all about a century out of date, and all discredited by the mainstream.

    I'm open to the idea that Jesus is either mythological or an amalgam of previous characters, but I didn't find Harpur's arguments compelling at all.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...