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The only solution is to love all mankind

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Today humanity is beset with many strifes, conflicts and wars and I believe that the only solution to ending these conflicts over time is for all people to be educated in the home, school, university and workplace to love all humanity unconditionally. It will take time but it is the only ideology which I firmly believe can defeat war, hatred, prejudice and terrorism because it has been proven that over time peace treaties, pacts and covenants eventually fail and war re-emerges unless there is true peace between individuals.

I‘m claiming this to be the main solution to ending war so it is a debate. What do you think?
What do I think?

That you took another opportunity to preach and place it under the guise of debate.

Aside from that, perhaps you will impart upon us your wisdom on how to teach love.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Today humanity is beset with many strifes, conflicts and wars and I believe that the only solution to ending these conflicts over time is for all people to be educated in the home, school, university and workplace to love all humanity unconditionally. It will take time but it is the only ideology which I firmly believe can defeat war, hatred, prejudice and terrorism because it has been proven that over time peace treaties, pacts and covenants eventually fail and war re-emerges unless there is true peace between individuals.

I‘m claiming this to be the main solution to ending war so it is a debate. What do you think?
You cannot be educated into this. Love beyond your family and friends require an internal transformation that no education can give. People can, for a time, follow a charismatic leader in that direction, but revert back to their narrow confines as soon as he/she is gone. Untransformed human nature is like an elastic spring. You can extend it or compress it using external force, but remove the force, it falls back to the default "mediocre" position.

And it is not in interest of nation states to do so anyways. In fact the current education is more attuned to make people hate everyone who is not of your political ideology or nationality..as that is highly beneficial to keep voters captive. Leaders do not actually have to do any work and assessed for it if the voters are fearful of the "other" enough.
Of course I do not expect any activism from the Bahai s either...unlike say Gandhi.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The problem in your suggested efforts is that the teacher who will teach "unconditional-love" in home, school, university and workplaces etc will take salary or a fee.

Taking salary, or a fee in return of such a teaching doesn't sounds "un-conditional"
Taking salary, or a fee in return of such a teaching is a credibility-gap which will dismiss this effort :)
It can be group learning without a lecturer.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
What do I think?

That you took another opportunity to preach and place it under the guise of debate.

Aside from that, perhaps you will impart upon us your wisdom on how to teach love.
I’m talking about how to remove prejudices between people and i believe that education to love all humanity will be a step forward towards peace. There are many other groups and people beginning to realise that treaties and pacts aren’t changing things and looking at how we are educated. If we can view each other as part of one global family i believe that will help end wars and poverty.

I don’t know much about this site except i came across it today but it says some very good things about having a world vision.

 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I’m talking about how to remove prejudices between people and i believe that education to love all humanity will be a step forward towards peace. There are many other groups and people beginning to realise that treaties and pacts aren’t changing things and looking at how we are educated. If we can view each other as part of one global family i believe that will help end wars and poverty.

I don’t know much about this site except i came across it today but it says some very good things about having a world vision.

This is doublespeak.

Let's try this again.

What does "education to love all humanity" look like? Please explain the process.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Even if this was somehow accomplished, it would not solve all the issues facing humans for two major reasons:
  • Humans inevitably invent their own problems. By this, I mean humans generally refuse to accept things as they simply are and instead constantly project values and judgements onto reality. Invariably, some of those judgements decree something to be a "problem" because it isn't the way that human things it "should" be. Refusal to accept reality for what it is... that won't stop with humans unconditionally loving their own species.
  • The vast majority of the world is not human. Humans only exist because the gods do. Even if somehow humans got all nicey nice with each other - which I don't believe is a reasonable expectation to begin with - that doesn't address their dysfunctional relationships with the greater-than-human world. The species is inherently consumptive and predatory and has overpopulated and overexploited its home. The symptoms of a species exceeding its carrying capacity will not be solved by kumbayas around a campfire with all humanity.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Humans will never be perfect but we can always strive for excellence.

Fair enough but you have kind of defeated your plan. Right, I mean unconditional love is not achievable.
So what can we do?

Myself, I simply try to treat others fairly. Even that is not perfect though since I get to decide what is fair.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Yes definitely not pacifist. But i believe in a just war .
Welcome to reality. And you should realize that your religion's ideal is not workable.

The one thing that has worked to create peace after WW2 is the rise of stable nations. As nations become more economically stable, and more people live in a stable environment, there's less tolerance for war. Look at what putin did to invade Ukraine and you see what hapvens when unstable leaders make poorjudgments, and then cause their own nation economic stress and hardship. Of course this is mostly on the people, not the wealthy. Whoever comes after putin will have to be as careful and paranoid as putin to stay in power.

You must really have my religion on your brain as this is about loving all humanity as a panacea for ridding the world of prejudice, hate and war.
Give me a break. We have seen your posts before, and we know where your ideas come from. You don't fool anyone by not mentionong your religion.
I bet if you sit on the psychiatrists couch and he shows you a number of cards with a figure of a black blog on each and asks you what it is i know just what your answer will be.
Oh my, a little passive aggressive, aren't we. See how easy it is to cross a line when emotions kick in?

If your religion was all it it supposed to be why hasn't it made a bigger impact? And it's not as if most people don't want peace, it is how national leadership responds to aggressors like Russia.
So far I’ve seen a couple of guest speakers namely professors talk about the war and mention that it’s the system of education that continues to produce terrorists. So one of the things that has been mentioning as a must to dismantle to prevent future terrorists is the educational system. One Muslim professor openly stated that the new system must teach to love everyone. But countries must defend their people when attacked.
The ideas are not unique to Baha'i. And here you go admitting it is about Baha'i ideas being endorsed by others. It's that Baha'i has yet shown it has actual solutions to real problems that result in conflict. Baha'i didn't stop putin.
The world’s resources need to be equitably distributed but that requires probably an international body to do that justly.
OK, and how do you convince the world's wealthy to finance it?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Even if this was somehow accomplished, it would not solve all the issues facing humans for two major reasons:
  • Humans inevitably invent their own problems. By this, I mean humans generally refuse to accept things as they simply are and instead constantly project values and judgements onto reality. Invariably, some of those judgements decree something to be a "problem" because it isn't the way that human things it "should" be. Refusal to accept reality for what it is... that won't stop with humans unconditionally loving their own species.
  • The vast majority of the world is not human. Humans only exist because the gods do. Even if somehow humans got all nicey nice with each other - which I don't believe is a reasonable expectation to begin with - that doesn't address their dysfunctional relationships with the greater-than-human world. The species is inherently consumptive and predatory and has overpopulated and overexploited its home. The symptoms of a species exceeding its carrying capacity will not be solved by kumbayas around a campfire with all humanity.
Great points. To your first point look at how conservatives in the USA are causing problems that don't exist all for the sake of political power. The extreme side of conservatism is becoming pro-putin, which is very alarming. If Trump succeeds and cuts all support for Ukraine and NATO, we could see a collapse that brings instability and an expanding war to Europe yet again.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Seems you are not very serious about it.

You propose a huge undertaking and want others to do all the heavy lifting?
Quite. We had a woman in the choir like this. I recall her brightly suggesting, when I was standing in as a temporary choir director (and already had my hands full with that), we could all go and sing carols down at the shops, in the run up to Christmas. Fine I said, if you can organise a date and time that enough people can manage - say 2-3 per part - and find a good location, I'll make a selection of suitable music for us to rehearse. She looked at me in surprise and said "Oh, I thought you would be taking care of that." I said not likely, I've plenty on my plate already, thanks. So it never happened. Later I discovered she had done this a couple of times before, to other people: make a bright suggestion and think the work is up to other people!

But in the present case, I suspect the underlying idea is this (faintly creepy) Baha'i notion of world government would take care of implementing it. ;)
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
This is doublespeak.

Let's try this again.

What does "education to love all humanity" look like? Please explain the process.
It’s a concept like i suppose nationalism except the loyalty is to humanity. So it’s a wider loyalty. So how did people learn to love their country? It began from a concept that was promoted until it became part of each countries culture. Loyalty to humanity works the same way but without national boundaries and impediments. So loving all humanity means we don’t exalt any race, nation or religion over the others.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
It’s a concept like i suppose nationalism except the loyalty is to humanity. So it’s a wider loyalty. So how did people learn to love their country? It began from a concept that was promoted until it became part of each countries culture. Loyalty to humanity works the same way but without national boundaries and impediments. So loving all humanity means we don’t exalt any race, nation or religion over the others.
So you're talking about pride, loyalty, and patriotism, then, and not love?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Today humanity is beset with many strifes, conflicts and wars and I believe that the only solution to ending these conflicts over time is for all people to be educated in the home, school, university and workplace to love all humanity unconditionally. It will take time but it is the only ideology which I firmly believe can defeat war, hatred, prejudice and terrorism because it has been proven that over time peace treaties, pacts and covenants eventually fail and war re-emerges unless there is true peace between individuals.

I‘m claiming this to be the main solution to ending war so it is a debate. What do you think?
I think people will judge and people will judge judgements too. I think compassion should be for all, but that has limits. We can't expect everyone to accept each other and love one another in a full sense of the potential of love.

Love of good and hate of evil are part of the balance. Cursing oppressors is part of the catalyst towards justice.

We need to be just and compassionate to one another even if we condemn and hate each other. For example, Lut (a) hated the ways of his people and condemned them, but he was very compassionate towards them.

There is no easy solution in reality. People being taught something does not mean they will apply just like US harps about human rights, but then goes kills humans more any other country, the most basic human right is the right to live.

My path personally is the concept of awaiting. The Quran shows there is two ways to wait, you can wait mockingly and then the worse results come about or like Mohammad (s) was awaiting the catastrophe but in a way to make people avoid it.

The Mahdi (a) is a type of Messenger that brings destruction, like Lut (a) being rejected brings destruction, but we can avoid the promise that not a city but will be destroyed or punished severely before the day of the judgment, if we make people accept him and accept his miracles, when he comes. Prepare people.

The hadiths and Quran both show the earth can not be fixed without a leader. It doesn't mean it will be fixed because there is a leader, but it won't be without him.

When you talk about educating, that requires structure and authority. The world structure right is now is that it's headed by the worse people, people who do nothing about the children being human trafficked everywhere and don't anything about even the organ transplanting type of human trafficking.

These people will talk about love and tolerance and hire people to do so as well. But the truth is holy books exposed the sorcerer that is handpicked by Satan and his apprentices and followers, and that society headed by them for a reason.

Justice won't happen till they fall from every high place, but your universal education might just give them the world on a silver platter.

I can't talk about teachings and ignore reality.

Quran talks about things realistically and idealistically.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Today humanity is beset with many strifes, conflicts and wars and I believe that the only solution to ending these conflicts over time is for all people to be educated in the home, school, university and workplace to love all humanity unconditionally. It will take time but it is the only ideology which I firmly believe can defeat war, hatred, prejudice and terrorism because it has been proven that over time peace treaties, pacts and covenants eventually fail and war re-emerges unless there is true peace between individuals.

I‘m claiming this to be the main solution to ending war so it is a debate. What do you think?
While I think your idea of educating people to love all humanity sounds good on the surface, as a now born again Christian, I don’t think it is feasible. For one thing, does it make sense to love unconditionally a serial murderer or child molester? Secondly, according to the Bible, this is a fallen world corrupted by sin. I don’t think education is capable of eradicating the sin nature which is the root cause of the problems and strife in the world you referred to. I believe peace between people and ultimate deliverance from the conflict and strife of this world can only be found in lives transformed by the Savior, Prince of Peace Jesus Christ. Even then, this remains a fallen world, which is passing away, heavily damaged by the impact of sin and the weight of its evil consequences. My view is that true love and peace will only exist in the new heaven and earth among those who have been changed and have new eternal life in Christ.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Is this view shared by many Baha'is? I'm asking because I have seen many try to preach it, including some who have cited Baha'i writings while doing so.
You said: If the Baha'i Faith teaches "accepting all humans as equals regardless of religion, race, and nationality," why does it also encourage converting others to the religion?

The Baha'i Faith teaches "accepting all humans as equals regardless of religion, race, and nationality," but the Baha'i Faith does not encourage converting others to the religion. We are only supposed to share what we believe and teach the Faith if people are interested. We are not supposed to try to convert others.
 
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