The NFL and Trump

[Augustus]

Why are people having such a hard time distinguishing between private behavior and professional behavior?
I don't get it.
Tom

Last time I looked, Donald Trump, Fox News and people whining on message boards weren't actually their employers and so their perspective on what standards of 'professional behaviour' need to be met is completely irrelevant.

 

[Enoch07]

This is the 49ers crowd at just before kickoff without any boycott. They are not in financial trouble in the slightest. If there were 500 fewer of them they still wouldn't be in financial trouble.

What % of fans do you think would commit to a long term boycott? 1%? 2%? 3%?

It's out of principle. That may not matter much to unprincipled people. And I might be the only person boycotting the NFL. Thats fine with me, I'll sleep just fine knowing my conscious is clean.

 

[sun rise]

The second time I have agreed with Trump.

Sports teams adopted the National Anthem to attract Fans during war time. It gave fans something to root for about the United States while their family was in battle. As such Fans pay for this right in the ticket sales.

While freedom of speech is everyone's right if you sell a service you must deliver the product. All NFL employees need to clarify the services the game provides and then honor them. You can't charge for services not provided.

The protests themselves are not protests at all. There is no loss of anything by kneeling or not participating in the national anthem. They do not interrupt the game, they still get paid and they still play. The only one being hurt are the Fans that believe American Football is a national game. While I believe these fans to be naive they still are paying customers and the NFL promotes itself as such a game.

I would like to see the FCC step in and require the NFL to not advertise as a National or Patriotic game if they are not going to support the National Anthem company wide.

So you're a big fan of having a gigantic government political correctness agency telling people what to do or not do presumably with penalties for those who fail to hew the party line.

 

[sun rise]

It's out of principle. That may not matter much to unprincipled people. And I might be the only person boycotting the NFL. Thats fine with me, I'll sleep just fine knowing my conscious is clean.

If people want to boycott a sport because of the actions of the players, it's totally their right to do so. Just as freedom of speech enshrines the ability of sports figures to publicly make their opinions known.

 

[columbus]

Last time I looked, Donald Trump, Fox News and people whining on message boards weren't actually their employers and so their perspective on what standards of 'professional behaviour' need to be met is completely irrelevant.

I don't care what any of those people think either.
It's what the NFL thinks is appropriate behavior. Kaepernick is part of that (or used to be), but he isn't in charge.
The little patriotism bit at the beginning is traditional. It was when Kaepernick started collecting his oversize paychecks and it still is.
Tom

 

[Valjean]

I call melodrama on that.
I explained that above... 9/11 and its aftermath.

Our reaction to 9/11 was a useless, apparently endless war, which so far has accomplished only an escalation of anti-American sentiment, a proliferation of terrorism, an epidemic of radical Islamism, destabilized a good part of the world, cost us trillions we desperately need here, and established a police-surveillance state at home -- seriously eroding our freedom and security.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm sorry, but I do not agree with any of that.

established a police-surveillance state at home -- seriously eroding our freedom and security.

I would like to see this, since I have yet to.

 

[Valjean]

I don't care what any of those people think either.
It's what the NFL thinks is appropriate behavior. Kaepernick is part of that (or used to be), but he isn't in charge.
The little patriotism bit at the beginning is traditional. It was when Kaepernick started collecting his oversize paychecks and it still is.
Tom

Tradition is bunk. I heard we started all this chauvinist posturing to bolster our moral during WWII. I think it's both unnecessary and has gone too far. It's no longer promoting solidarity. It's become divisive.

 

[Valjean]

I'm sorry, but I do not agree with any of that.

But the facts are facts. Eppur si muove

I would like to see this, since I have yet to.

Have you been hiding under a rock?

 

[Jainarayan]

But the facts are facts. Eppur si muove

Ognuno di noi ha un'ascia per macinare.

Have you been hiding under a rock?

No, just living my life as a law-abiding citizen, going about his daily business. Oh wait! I did get stopped by a police officer... he wanted to tell me my tail light was out. He didn't get nasty or drag me out of my truck when I didn't call him names or ask him why he was doing his job.

 

[Augustus]

I don't care what any of those people think either.
It's what the NFL thinks is appropriate behavior. Kaepernick is part of that (or used to be), but he isn't in charge.
The little patriotism bit at the beginning is traditional. It was when Kaepernick started collecting his oversize paychecks and it still is.
Tom

And the NFL, just like most owners, hasn't deemed it inappropriate behaviour.

So while you don't like it, the players are well within their rights to keep on kneeling.

 

[columbus]

And the NFL, just like most owners, hasn't deemed it inappropriate behaviour.

So while you don't like it, the players are well within their rights to keep on kneeling.

If the NFL doesn't have a problem here, then what difference does it make? Why does anyone care?
If the NFL doesn't care about players politicizing the pregame show, then what is the issue? I couldn't care less about Kaepernick and his ill-informed views. He could wave an ISIS flag for all I care, as long as the management don't care.
Tom

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

These players do not mind taking millions of US dollars to play ball. But they can't respect the country that makes it possible for them to play? It is not about politics but about respect for the country. Go play ball in North Korea and see if you can show disrespect to the country or its leaders. If you can't respect the US then give back all the money and find a new job.

 

[bobhikes]

For the people complaining about kneeling:

When watching at home do you stand for the national anthem?

Nope but then I also don't pay a PSL and for season tickets which runs in the thousands per year.

 

[bobhikes]

I've been an official at auto racing events many times. Some of them have Christian invocations before the race.

I don't bow my head during these prayers... partly because I'm not a Christian, but mostly because, as a secularist, I object to them being part of the event.

Have the race promoters also "charged for services not provided" when I don't bow my head?

Do they advertise as including religion in the Races? Do they call themselves the Christian races? If they do then you should be instructed what to do to fulfill a paid advertisement.

 

[bobhikes]

Or even in the stands.

I'm more of a baseball person than a football person, but I assume that it's the same at Ford Field as at Comerica Park: during the anthem, there's a steady stream of people walking up the aisles with their beers. I remember one game recently where we arrived a bit late; we were still on the concourse when the anthem started playing. Our group of Canadians stopped and stood still until the end, but most other people just kept walking, even though the anthem was clearly audible.

My argument is paid for product. If the NFL comes out and says we are no longer going to play the national anthem at every game or stops advertising as a National sport than people have the opportunity to by the new product.

 

[bobhikes]

This is ridiculously flimsy. I mean... it barely even had a toe, let alone a leg to stand on.

You feel the national anthem is somehow baked into ticket sales? How much of the cost of the ticket would you say it makes up? If you don't know and can't find this information, then I would say that's because it doesn't exist.

What you're essentially saying is that some people go to the games expecting/assuming/demanding that the game somehow provide them a sense of pride in America. I'm sorry... but based on what I know and have witnessed from the sports fans I have come in contact with (and, like any one else, I would say that number is quite considerable) that does not seem accurate at all.

It doesn't matter how much it is worth(I believe it is worth a lot, check the early results and the rage today). It is false advertising which is a crime.

 

[Augustus]

If the NFL doesn't have a problem here, then what difference does it make? Why does anyone care?

I don't know why anyone cares passionately about some entertainers kneeling down for a minute while someone sings a song.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It doesn't matter how much it is worth(I believe it is worth a lot, check the early results and the rage today). It is false advertising which is a crime.

But what is being advertised? Are you claiming that the NFL actually ADVERTISES that their players are going to stand for the national anthem? Do they also advertise that their players are going to be patriotic to the U.S.? And for anyone claiming that this should fall under some sort of "professional behavior" vs. "private behavior" heading, does it explicitly state anywhere in the players' contracts that they are to adhere to any and all patriotic observances? The term "unprofessional" is actually very much just a political weakness of business practice. It belies cowardice, and an over-adherence to kissing everyone's buttocks.

Calling this scenario with the kneeling "unprofessional" is like me bringing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to work and my boss suddenly telling me that PB&J is kid's food and therefore unprofessional. If I didn't sign-on understanding that PB&J was forbidden in the workplace, then my boss can go stuff himself, or they can go ahead and make rules surrounding PB&J. But I ask you - in the case where they DO outlaw PB&J, who looks like the bigger idiot? In fact... who IS the bigger idiot?

 

[Augustus]

My argument is paid for product. If the NFL comes out and says we are no longer going to play the national anthem at every game or stops advertising as a National sport than people have the opportunity to by the new product.

When I purchased NFL Game Pass, at no point was I led to believe that I was purchasing guaranteed national anthems with or without people standing.

(As a non-American I think I'd actually pay extra not to have to hear someone butchering the Star Spangled Banner for what seems like 10 minutes prior to every game )