The NFL and Trump

[bobhikes]

The second time I have agreed with Trump.

Sports teams adopted the National Anthem to attract Fans during war time. It gave fans something to root for about the United States while their family was in battle. As such Fans pay for this right in the ticket sales.

While freedom of speech is everyone's right if you sell a service you must deliver the product. All NFL employees need to clarify the services the game provides and then honor them. You can't charge for services not provided.

The protests themselves are not protests at all. There is no loss of anything by kneeling or not participating in the national anthem. They do not interrupt the game, they still get paid and they still play. The only one being hurt are the Fans that believe American Football is a national game. While I believe these fans to be naive they still are paying customers and the NFL promotes itself as such a game.

I would like to see the FCC step in and require the NFL to not advertise as a National or Patriotic game if they are not going to support the National Anthem company wide.

 

[Valjean]

If you incorporate a political demonstration into an event you shouldn't be surprised when someone expresses a political opinion, or censorious when said opinion is contrary to yours.
The NFL opened the door, and now they're upset that someone stepped through.

 

[Enoch07]

The second time I have agreed with Trump.

Sports teams adopted the National Anthem to attract Fans during war time. It gave fans something to root for about the United States while their family was in battle. As such Fans pay for this right in the ticket sales.

While freedom of speech is everyone's right if you sell a service you must deliver the product. All NFL employees need to clarify the services the game provides and then honor them. You can't charge for services not provided.

The protests themselves are not protests at all. There is no loss of anything by kneeling or not participating in the national anthem. They do not interrupt the game, they still get paid and they still play. The only one being hurt are the Fans that believe American Football is a national game. While I believe these fans to be naive they still are paying customers and the NFL promotes itself as such a game.

I would like to see the FCC step is an require the NFL to not advertise as a National or Patriotic game if they are not going to support the National Anthem company wide.

I am joining the NFL boycott. All players have a right to not stand. But I also have the right to not spend my money on organizations that do not support America and the freedoms it provides. So I will not purchase any merchandise, buy any tickets, or even watch any games on tv until this has been resolved. Good luck cashing in those million dollar contracts without the income flow from the ticket sales,merchandising, and ad revenue provided to you, by us, the fans.

 

[Augustus]

For the people complaining about kneeling:

When watching at home do you stand for the national anthem?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sports teams adopted the National Anthem to attract Fans during war time. It gave fans something to root for about the United States while their family was in battle. As such Fans pay for this right in the ticket sales.

While freedom of speech is everyone's right if you sell a service you must deliver the product. All NFL employees need to clarify the services the game provides and then honor them. You can't charge for services not provided.

I've been an official at auto racing events many times. Some of them have Christian invocations before the race.

I don't bow my head during these prayers... partly because I'm not a Christian, but mostly because, as a secularist, I object to them being part of the event.

Have the race promoters also "charged for services not provided" when I don't bow my head?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

For the people complaining about kneeling:

When watching at home do you stand for the national anthem?

Or even in the stands.

I'm more of a baseball person than a football person, but I assume that it's the same at Ford Field as at Comerica Park: during the anthem, there's a steady stream of people walking up the aisles with their beers. I remember one game recently where we arrived a bit late; we were still on the concourse when the anthem started playing. Our group of Canadians stopped and stood still until the end, but most other people just kept walking, even though the anthem was clearly audible.

 

[Valjean]

For the people complaining about kneeling:

When watching at home do you stand for the national anthem?

It seems to me that kneeling is a much stronger gesture of respect and subservience that standing with your hand on your heart. Perhaps it's the dissension and individualism that irks the nativist authoritarians.

 

[Enoch07]

I've been an official at auto racing events many times. Some of them have Christian invocations before the race.

I don't bow my head during these prayers... partly because I'm not a Christian, but mostly because, as a secularist, I object to them being part of the event.

Have the race promoters also "charged for services not provided" when I don't bow my head?

You have the freedom to not bow your head for prayer. Just as they have the freedom to not stand for the anthem . Just as I a fan have the right to not give my money to you for any reason. That is one right as an enterainer you do not have. So speak your mind, just don't expect a paycheck for it.

 

[Augustus]

Also when people claim it disrespects the military, what about the military personnel and veterans that support the protests? Even though they are a minority, does their voice not matter despite their sacrifices?

Is it not disrespecting the military for non-veterans to use them as a political prop even though many actual veterans don't agree with the political views being presented?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You have the freedom to not bow your head for prayer. Just as they have the freedom to not stand for the anthem . Just as I a fan have the right to not give my money to you for any reason. That is one right as an enterainer you do not have. So speak your mind, just don't expect a paycheck for it.

Most race officials - including me - are volunteers, even at the highest levels of the sport. All the race fans pay for when I'm at the track is my lunch and occasionally a hat.

Though I have to say: the situation you're describing - "bow your head to a religion you don't believe in or I'm going to boycott you," effectively - seems pretty oppressive.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It gave fans something to root for about the United States while their family was in battle. As such Fans pay for this right in the ticket sales.

While freedom of speech is everyone's right if you sell a service you must deliver the product.

This is ridiculously flimsy. I mean... it barely even had a toe, let alone a leg to stand on.

You feel the national anthem is somehow baked into ticket sales? How much of the cost of the ticket would you say it makes up? If you don't know and can't find this information, then I would say that's because it doesn't exist.

What you're essentially saying is that some people go to the games expecting/assuming/demanding that the game somehow provide them a sense of pride in America. I'm sorry... but based on what I know and have witnessed from the sports fans I have come in contact with (and, like any one else, I would say that number is quite considerable) that does not seem accurate at all.

 

[Valjean]

Also when people claim it disrespects the military, what about the military personnel and veterans that support the protests? Even though they are a minority, does their voice not matter despite their sacrifices?

Is it not disrespecting the military for non-veterans to use them as a political prop even though many actual veterans don't agree with the political views being presented?

Personally, I find all this flag waving and adulation for the military deeply worrying

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Also when people claim it disrespects the military, what about the military personnel and veterans that support the protests? Even though they are a minority, does their voice not matter despite their sacrifices?

Is it not disrespecting the military for non-veterans to use them as a political prop even though many actual veterans don't agree with the political views being presented?

Oh, of course.

It's even more blatant in NASCAR, where they don't even try to hide the marketing and sponsorship. "Here's the color guard from the local army base... now be sure to wrap your American flag around the CEO of our title sponsor for the race."

It's more subtle in football, but it's still there. That whole thing where commercial enterprises try to make buying their product part of what it means to be patriotic is pretty disgusting, IMO, and the thing that's truly disrespectful.

Colin Kaepernick is trying, as he sees it, to make his country better. Agree or disagree with his cause or his tactics, but recognize that this is his motive. OTOH, most of the flag-waving and patriotism at a football game is just an attempt to build brand affinity for the teams and sponsors.

 

[DavidFirth]

I don't understand why people pay outrageous prices to attend NFL games when you get a better seat in your own home on your own couch and watch several games at the same time.

Beats me?

 

[Enoch07]

Most race officials - including me - are volunteers, even at the highest levels of the sport. All the race fans pay for when I'm at the track is my lunch and occasionally a hat.

Though I have to say: the situation you're describing - "bow your head to a religion you don't believe in or I'm going to boycott you," effectively - seems pretty oppressive.

If your volunteer thats another story. Personally I don't care if my money is not involved.

But paid entertainers are another. I am not obligated to spend my money on entertainment that does not repect our freedoms. Trust me there are plenty of athletes out there that even despite their personal beliefs, are willing to stand for the national anthem and show respect for the country that gives them the freedom to be bourgeoisie millionaires. The marketplace of ideas will weed out any undesirables.

 

[Valjean]

I seem to recall formations of fighter jets flying over certain sporting events and national celebrations.
How much did this cost, and what's being symbolized?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If your volunteer thats another story. Personally I don't care if my money is not involved.

But paid entertainers are another. I am not obligated to spend my money on entertainment that does not repect our freedoms. Trust me there aren plenty of athletes out there that even despite their personal beliefs, are willing to stand for the national anthem and show respect for the country that gives them the freedom to be bourgeoisie millionaires. The marketplace of ideas will weed out any undesirables.

And this is your line in the sand?

Not Michael Vick's dogfighting ring?
Not the many NFL players who have committed domestic abuse?
Not the callous disregard of the league and team management to player brain injury?
Not racist team names and mascots?

All those were fine, but someone making a symbolic stand to call attention to murder... that's what you decide is too offensive for you to spend your money?

 

[Enoch07]

And this is your line in the sand?

Not Michael Vick's dogfighting ring?
Not the many NFL players who have committed domestic abuse?
Not the callous disregard of the league and team management to player brain injury?
Not racist team names and mascots?

All those were fine, but someone making a symbolic stand to call attention to murder... that's what you decide is too offensive for you to spend your money?

I don't recall supporting any of those things.

But yes, I will boycott the NFL because of disrespectful, ungrateful, spoiled children who think they are being edgy.

 

[Valjean]

Well, If I had the least interest in sports I might make some gesture of opposition as well.
Perhaps the next time I see a football game on TV I'll drop my trowsers and moon the set during the anthem -- then change to a PBS channel.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Well, If I had the least interest in sports I might make some gesture of opposition as well.
Perhaps the next time I see a football game on TV I'll drop my trowsers and moon the set during the anthem -- then change to a PBS channel.

Well, your TV is watching you, you know. And it's going to tell the microwave and the air conditioner that you've been naughty, and finally, your cell phone will call the appropriate authorities to turn you in as not supporting The Party...