The meaning and importance of meditation

[TransmutingSoul]

I’ve often heard from adherents of the Dharmic Faiths that their faith is more mystical than their Abrahamic cousins. Meditation is seen in many traditions as being an important path to attaining deeper mystical experiences. Are the insights gained deeper and more profound? Is that really true? What does meditation mean to you and where does it belong in your worldview? Are adherents of the Dharmic Faiths really more mystical and contemplative?

I try to Meditate, but my mind soon returns to this world.

I see it is a very important part of Faith, that I have not yet been able to find, maybe there is still yet time!

Regards Tony

 

[metis]

Let me just say that, as a Catholic, I use meditation a daily. Even though I don't do the Rosary except on occasions, nevertheless it involves meditation whereas the prayers are basically used as a mantra. In my case, I much prefer walking meditation and early-morning coffee meditation (seriously, as my monkey-mind is less active.)

 

[Left Coast]

I’ve often heard from adherents of the Dharmic Faiths that their faith is more mystical than their Abrahamic cousins. Meditation is seen in many traditions as being an important path to attaining deeper mystical experiences. Are the insights gained deeper and more profound? Is that really true? What does meditation mean to you and where does it belong in your worldview? Are adherents of the Dharmic Faiths really more mystical and contemplative?

In the Buddhist tradition(s), "mystical experiences" are really not the purpose of meditation. They are usually seen as incidental and even a distraction. The point of meditation is as a training to help us gain the insight of the Four Noble Truths. It gives us the mindfulness and concentration to be able to perceive the ephemeral nature of the world and even our own selves, and the underlying cause of our suffering from greed, aversion, and delusion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I’ve often heard from adherents of the Dharmic Faiths that their faith is more mystical than their Abrahamic cousins. Meditation is seen in many traditions as being an important path to attaining deeper mystical experiences. Are the insights gained deeper and more profound? Is that really true? What does meditation mean to you and where does it belong in your worldview? Are adherents of the Dharmic Faiths really more mystical and contemplative?

For me, meditation was highly focused thinking about what truth is. I am not at all mystical and I do not associate meditation with mysticism. Meditation allowed me to have answers to all my questions, to the extent that I do not need meditation now. Those who are mystical means they do not have answers to their questions and hide under the cover of mysticism, sort of 'that is not for common people to understand, only realized souls can know this" or "it would take you three life-times to understand" or some such sh it. The truth is evident, it is perfectly knowable, here and now. You only have to abandon your prejudices. (Excuse me for being so forth-right)

 

[Martin]

"Meditation" seems mostly associated with the Eastern traditions, though not exclusively so. It's difficult to generalise, since "meditation" means all sorts of different things to different people. Different methods, different assumptions, different goals.

 

[Dawnofhope]

For me, meditation was highly focused thinking about what truth is. I am not at all mystical and I do not associate meditation with mysticism. Meditation allowed me to have answers to all my questions, to the extent that I do not need meditation now. Those who are mystical means they do not have answers to their questions and hide under the cover of mysticism, sort of 'that is not for common people to understand, only realized souls can know this" or "it would take you three life-times to understand" or some such sh it. The truth is evident, it is perfectly knowable, here and now. You only have to abandon your prejudices. (Excuse me for being so forth-right)

Thank you Aup and everyone else for your responses. It seems clear that meditation is part of the experience of most faiths and the word as different meanings. It can be associated with contemplation, being present in the here and now, to gain freedom from the negative aspects of human nature. Meditation can also be associated with mysticism or 'deeper' experiences, another word that has many meanings and associations for each of us.

Throughout this thread there was some tension between Dharmic and Abrahamic approaches expressed through the views of different practitioners including a Christian participant warning of the dangers of some Hindu practices and beliefs.

My personal approach is daily meditation for the purposes of reflection, better day to day living, being better able to serve my community and becoming a better person.

 

[ajay0]

I’ve often heard from adherents of the Dharmic Faiths that their faith is more mystical than their Abrahamic cousins.

This is not true with respect to Sufism, which is very similar to the Dharmic religions. Fanaa is identical with the Hindu concept of liberation and the Buddhist void.

What the Dharmic religions mean is that the intellect and thought are not the correct instruments to perceive the Divine. This is because the Divine is subtler than these instruments. The right instrument is one's own consciousness, purified of its cravings and aversions. This purification is attained by practice of present moment awareness and total unconditional love.


I don't think this is intellectually very hard to understand, but people are so used to intellectually analysing everything that they find it hard to transcend this habit when it matters.

 

[ajay0]

This teaching is found in and stems from Hinduism. The practice of Yoga involves this spiritistic practice. A master of Yoga is known as a Guru. And there are cases of gurus who receives supernatural abilities, possesses, visions, etc. But notice what the father of Yoga states about such. His name was Patanjali, and in his work Yoga Sutra he says that these powers and abilities come from wicked spirits, he called them evil celestial beings.

I have read the Yoga Sutra's and I have never come across such reference to Satan and demons.

You are imagining stuff over here and putting it where it does not belong. Too many hollywood horror films I suppose.

I think in the west, horror films involving Satan and the demons have a very good market and is a great way of making money. It is also a good way of keeping the herd under control and nip mettlesome ones who dare to question in the bud itself.

 

[firedragon]

I’ve often heard from adherents of the Dharmic Faiths that their faith is more mystical than their Abrahamic cousins. Meditation is seen in many traditions as being an important path to attaining deeper mystical experiences. Are the insights gained deeper and more profound? Is that really true? What does meditation mean to you and where does it belong in your worldview? Are adherents of the Dharmic Faiths really more mystical and contemplative?

I wonder if someone like Einstein, Newton, Alkhawarizmi, and even someone like Ghandi came up with their amazing thoughts by meditating without intending to.

I am no expert in meditation but as far as I know meditation is focus. There is a meditation in Buddhism called Para dhukka dhukkitha bhavana which is meditation on the deeper sorrow of having sorrow. Then you get the most famous one called Anaa paana sathi bhavana which is meditation on your own breathing. Exhaling and inhaling.

How ever, the point is all of these so called meditations are simply focusing on one thing and the teaching is that you go from Sowaan, arahath, to Buddha which are all different levels of enlightenment. What ever the teaching of these levels are, bottomline is, the meditation is focusing on one single thing.

I wonder if Einstein focused so much on one thing and he goes into this enlightenment mode where he gets his eureka moments.

 

[firedragon]

In the Buddhist tradition(s), "mystical experiences" are really not the purpose of meditation. They are usually seen as incidental and even a distraction. The point of meditation is as a training to help us gain the insight of the Four Noble Truths. It gives us the mindfulness and concentration to be able to perceive the ephemeral nature of the world and even our own selves, and the underlying cause of our suffering from greed, aversion, and delusion.

By four noble truths you mean the Chathuraryasathya? So you believe in that? Very interesting.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I wonder if Einstein focused so much on one thing and he goes into this enlightenment mode where he gets his eureka moments.

Yes, Firedragon, answers in science (for that matter, any progress in science, even at the student stage) will not come without profound focus.

 

[Eyes to See]

I have read the Yoga Sutra's and I have never come across such reference to Satan and demons.

You are imagining stuff over here and putting it where it does not belong. Too many hollywood horror films I suppose.

I think in the west, horror films involving Satan and the demons have a very good market and is a great way of making money. It is also a good way of keeping the herd under control and nip mettlesome ones who dare to question in the bud itself.

The Yoga Sutra does not refer to fallen angels or wicked spirits as such it calls them celestial beings, in this case it warns against the possible contact with evil celestial beings.

 

[ajay0]

The Katha Upanishad (1:2:23) teaches that truth cannot be known through scripture, only mystic experiences alone. The Hindu swami Sivandada, quite in contrast to the Bible's admonition to use one's "power of reason" says "Intellect is a hindrance. That which separates you from God is mind."-The World of Gurus, page 77.

The focus of Swami Sivananda here is experiential understanding rather than mere intellectual understanding of Brahman or God, which does not get anyone anywhere. I have emphasized this in this post.

Prajñanam brahma - Brahman is pure consciousness (Aitareya Upanishad 3.3 of the Rig Veda)

Brahman being pure consciousness, is subtler than thought or intellect, and this is the reason why consciousness is considered the right instrument to perceive Brahman. Here consciousness is consciousness purified of impurities of intense desires in the form of cravings and aversions, through meditation, selfless service, present moment awareness and unconditional love.

Hindu mystics practice Yogic meditation so they can dull their intellect and experience trances, feelings of ecstasy. Those who attain such a state ares said to have achieved moksha.

It is not dulling of the intellect, but purification of consciousness through meditation that is emphasized here.

In fact research has confirmed meditation to be associated with superior cognitive benefits.

Yoga, meditation improve brain function and energy levels, study shows

Meditation's cognitive benefits | About memory

The Yoga Sutra does not refer to fallen angels or wicked spirits as such it calls them celestial beings, in this case it warns against the possible contact with evil celestial beings.

It is just the projections of imagination being dealt here. There are no such things as Satan and demons in Hinduism which you are accustomed with. That is why you and others are imagining things where there is none.

In fact, reasoning and discretion is also emphasized in the Yoga Sutras.

1.17.The concentration called right knowledge is that which is followed by reasoning, discrimination, bliss,unqualified ego.


Those who have vices in them are called demonic, but it is really the vices within them stemming from raag-dvesh, intense desires in the form of cravings and aversions that are the true causes of demonic nature.

All crimes such as murder, rape, torture, theft can be traced to cravings and aversions known in general as hatred, lust, anger, greed and so on. This is all there is to it. The real adversary is not Satan, demons, ghosts or Dracula but the untrained mind.

Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself a greater harm. Neither mother, father, nor any other relative can do one greater good than one’s own well-directed mind. - Buddha ( Dhammapada 42-43)

For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy. Krishna ( BG: 6.6)

It is the untrained mind that is known as Maya in Hinduism and Mara in Buddhism. It is the untrained and conditioned mind that projects such deluded fantasies as Satan and demons and evil celestial beings which some take as literal and real, and run circles around it all their lives.

This deluded state can also be caused by ill-health, psychological disease and senility.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I’ve often heard from adherents of the Dharmic Faiths that their faith is more mystical than their Abrahamic cousins. Meditation is seen in many traditions as being an important path to attaining deeper mystical experiences. Are the insights gained deeper and more profound? Is that really true? What does meditation mean to you and where does it belong in your worldview? Are adherents of the Dharmic Faiths really more mystical and contemplative?

Meditation means many things: deep prayer, deep thinking/reflecting, mindfulness, listening to music, dancing, enjoying an idyll, immersing in sensations at some beautiful place in nature... It brings balance by centering myself and directing my attention to other/mystical aspects of life that are often forgotten and overlooked.

Meditation is often connected with ecstasy (not the drug). The word means to stand outside. Outside of what? Ego-self, compulsions, attachments... The peak is the ecstatic union with God/Absolute. In Christian/Western understanding individual self (I) at this point still remains. As far as I know this is different in Hinduism because they believe there is also a higher level of samadhi (where there is no more I).

Some recommended Christian books on contemplation: The Cloud of Unknowing, Into the Silent Land, The Way of a Pilgrim.