The Mark of the Beast

[tarasan]

Definitely. I'm not saying we should just accept them to annoy the Christians, the privacy concerns are genuine and need to be discussed if we're going down that road. My question was why exactly do Christians fear this so much when it's implementation is believed by many to be exactly what they're waiting for? There are now three states with this sort of legislation and I'm sure none of them did it just for the privacy concerns. After all, none of them passed legislation prohibiting the Patriot Act and that's been monumentally destructive when it comes to privacy laws.

No, their motivation is all biblical and they appear to be cutting off their nose to spite their faces, as it were. How can god return if the prophecy is not fulfilled?

-S-

Im sure if such a thing would be counted as the mark, but even if it were the case we have to reject evil, and if it ment to happen then we wont be able to stop it, so both our need to deny evil and the phrophecy will be fulfilled.

 

[Bennettresearch]

On the contrary, you might be surprised how many people do read it!

I know because I'm one of the folks who supply it online to others upon request!

Peace,

Bruce

Too bad that it is totally out to lunch when it comes to the book of Revelation.
Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Im sure if such a thing would be counted as the mark, but even if it were the case we have to reject evil, and if it ment to happen then we wont be able to stop it, so both our need to deny evil and the phrophecy will be fulfilled.

This part of the prophecy has been fulfilled. The mark of the beast is the Cross. All people have to do is open their eyes and realize the Rev 13:14 is Jesus. It is a transition from the Lamb in Rev 13:8.
John shows it plain as day when he transitions the Head, Rev 13:3, to the first beast in Rev 13:12. It is a major clue and everyone misses it. The image of the beast is the crucifix. I spell it all out in my thread, Debunking the Antichrist Myth.
Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Maybe they just don't want Jesus to return? I can't see any company developing, and then having implemented something that would be the Mark of the Beast (which this chip, in all technical sense, does not qualify as the Biblical Mark which would be 666). It simply is not going to happen, so Jesus can never come back. Not a very good plan on the Christian communities part.

However, that is only if those Christians believe the idea of the rapture, etc. Most likely, as scholars having been discovering, the book of Revelation has nothing to do with the end times, but had to do with eminent events, and events that had already taken place.

Close but no cigar. The number 666 was one of three options. The mark is actually the Cross. 666 is the number of Jesus if one reads chapter 13 correctly. If the whole world thinks this number is evil, then Jesus would surely be considered as the Antichrist when he returns.
I've parsed out chapter 13 in my thread Debunking the Antichrist Myth.
Craig

 

[BruceDLimber]

Too bad that it is totally out to lunch when it comes to the book of Revelation.

As always, you are quite welcome to your opinion!

A few million of us disagree.

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

666 is the number of Jesus if one reads chapter 13 correctly.

In your interpretation.

IOV it's simply a date, and refers to 661 CE, exactly 666 years after the birth of Christ, when the first beast arose and spread its corruptions!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Danmac]

For those of you paying attention to that sort of thing, you may have seen that a few weeks ago the U.S. state of Virginia passed legislation prohibiting the use of microchip technology being used in humans for fears of it becoming the so called 'mark of the beast' as is foretold in the book of Revelations.

Read about it here: Virginia delegates pass bill banning chip implants as ‘mark of the beast’ | Raw Story

They do bring up privacy concerns as one of the reasons, which I agree is a concern, but, to quote Virginia state Delegate Mark Cole, "My understanding -- I'm not a theologian -- but there's a prophecy in the Bible that says you'll have to receive a mark, or you can neither buy nor sell things in end times."

So, to my question, which is mainly to believers: If you believe in so-called 'end time prophecies' and the mark of the beast, as Mark Cole and so many others do, why would you not embrace it as a sign that your god is returning to lift you up to heaven? Why the fear? Why ban what you believe to be an integral part of the prophesied return of your savior?

This confuses me. Please explain.

-S-

Maybe Virginia is behind the times
Local Man Has Microchip Implanted Under Skin - Technology News Story - WLWT Cincinnati

 

[Xafwak]

What if a scientist developed an under-skin medical capsule to be placed in hand that would prevent diseases, including fatal ones? Would you not go and get it? Frankly anyone refusing such an invention based on the Bible is no different from the scholars that argued for a geo-centric universe. Which I think is plain dumb.

 

[Zardoz]

What if a scientist developed an under-skin medical capsule to be placed in hand that would prevent diseases, including fatal ones? ...

Pacemakers and insulin pumps come to mind, and I know of at least one long-release medicine put under the skin.

'Mark of the Beast' and, well, all of so-called 'Revelations' is nonsense anyways, IMO.

... and why is my picture on this thread?

 

[Ardipithecus]

It's a natural reaction to try to oppose evil.

The same Fundamentalists consider freedom of speech to be evil.

They consider not believing in the Jesus virgin birth to be evil.

They consider freedom to choose another religion to be evil.

They consider not believing in Virgin born Jesus resurrecting to be evil.

They consider scientific inquiry into the causes of phenomena differing from Bible mythology to be evil.

They consider the scientific fact of evolution to be evil.

They condemn Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Tom Paine, and Ethan Allen to be evil for denying the virgin birth and resurrection from the dead of Jesus.

Some of Right Wing Christians believe the holocaust was a hoax.

Some Right Wing Christians believe in White Racial Superiority.

Right Wing Christians would ban books that say the Earth is far older than 6,000 years.

Right Wing Christians would oppose a book claiming that non-Christians, non-theists, and gays deserve equal rights.

The list is much longer, but having lived in Texas in the late 70's, I am not using hyperbole in these comments. I wrote a letter to a City Newspaper (not mentioning or denying God) promoting the teaching of evolution. I received dozens of life threatening phone calls and an envelope in my mail box, with a photo of my wife and toddler son playing in our yard.

This is why I am so strong in my opinion that Conservative Fundamentalism is really a mental disorder. It drives people to kill, threaten to kill, commit arson, and order their children to beat up Jewish kids, gay kids, or Atheist kids at school. The ACLU and FFRF have long lists of these EVIL events.

The real evil and the real sin is any belief system based on fear, God ordered killing/genocide, and hatred of those whose beliefs differ.

Ardipithecus

 

[Ardipithecus]

Pacemakers and insulin pumps come to mind, and I know of at least one long-release medicine put under the skin.

'Mark of the Beast' and, well, all of so-called 'Revelations' is nonsense anyways, IMO.

... and why is my picture on this thread?

It is simple. HMO's can do the following.

Christian Cults (Christian Science) can be denied all modern medicine so as to not violate their belief in prayer.

JW's could be denied surgery if blood replacement is necessary.

Southern Baptists can be denied care if African American doctors and nurses work for the HMO.

Christian Fundamentalist Extremists can be denied care or medical procedures if the HMO employs Atheistic, Muslim, Pagan/Hindu, Black, gays, or Jesus following Christians.

I mean no slight against good liberal and moderate Christians.

Ardipithecus

 

[Bennettresearch]

In your interpretation.

IOV it's simply a date, and refers to 661 CE, exactly 666 years after the birth of Christ, when the first beast arose and spread its corruptions!

Peace,

Bruce

I see, the nonsense you represent is a fact, while the fact that I have demonstrated is merely an opinion? Hey, people followed David Koresh, Jim Jones, and all kinds of looney toons religions. You can never in a thousand years resolve your claim to the text in chapter 13. This is why it is so dismissable. It is also interesting that you are saying that the number 666 has something to do with the rise of Islam. Are you saying that Islam is the Antichrist? I'm sure you could find a lot of people who would agree with there.

Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

The same Fundamentalists consider freedom of speech to be evil.

They consider not believing in the Jesus virgin birth to be evil.

They consider freedom to choose another religion to be evil.

They consider not believing in Virgin born Jesus resurrecting to be evil.

They consider scientific inquiry into the causes of phenomena differing from Bible mythology to be evil.

They consider the scientific fact of evolution to be evil.

They condemn Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Tom Paine, and Ethan Allen to be evil for denying the virgin birth and resurrection from the dead of Jesus.

Some of Right Wing Christians believe the holocaust was a hoax.

Some Right Wing Christians believe in White Racial Superiority.

Right Wing Christians would ban books that say the Earth is far older than 6,000 years.

Right Wing Christians would oppose a book claiming that non-Christians, non-theists, and gays deserve equal rights.

The list is much longer, but having lived in Texas in the late 70's, I am not using hyperbole in these comments. I wrote a letter to a City Newspaper (not mentioning or denying God) promoting the teaching of evolution. I received dozens of life threatening phone calls and an envelope in my mail box, with a photo of my wife and toddler son playing in our yard.

This is why I am so strong in my opinion that Conservative Fundamentalism is really a mental disorder. It drives people to kill, threaten to kill, commit arson, and order their children to beat up Jewish kids, gay kids, or Atheist kids at school. The ACLU and FFRF have long lists of these EVIL events.

The real evil and the real sin is any belief system based on fear, God ordered killing/genocide, and hatred of those whose beliefs differ.

Ardipithecus

I'll agree with you here even though I am a Christian. The superstitious nonsense and the hatred of those opposing dogma is the product of the first century and the coming church, which of course encouraged and enabled this kind of thinking for the purpose of maintaining control and gaining powere to control the world. Revelation is a warning against this.

The incorrect interpretation of the number 666 has spawned a tremendous amount of superstious nonsense. It is actually the number of Jesus that the church was predicted as causing people to wear to identify themselves as Christians. It was one of 3 options and they made a different choice, the Cross.

I have no problem with time release medicine, but I do have a problem with chip implantation. Just who is going to be monitoring me and what kind of control would they want out of it? Look at how people nowadays love to control you enonymously through your computer.

Craig

 

[BruceDLimber]

IOV it's simply a date, and refers to 661 CE, exactly 666 years after the birth of Christ, when the first beast arose and spread its corruptions!

I see, the nonsense you represent is a fact, while the fact that I have demonstrated is merely an opinion?

I never characterized your opinion, little as you appreciate this fact!

You can never in a thousand years resolve your claim to the text in chapter 13.

There is no need for me to do so because the Baha'i scriptures (as well as other books) already do so, whether YOU happen to like the fact or not! So our view stands.

It is also interesting that you are saying that the number 666 has something to do with the rise of Islam. Are you saying that Islam is the Antichrist?

Definitely not, as you'd already be aware if you actually knew anything about what we believe and teach! I said it refers to an event later on, well after the rise of Islam!

Not to mention which: the Bible itself states that the antichrist was a former Christian, thus invalidating your question.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Danmac]

Maybe this will help. DCLXVI = 666

 

[Ardipithecus]

I'll agree with you here even though I am a Christian. The superstitious nonsense and the hatred of those opposing dogma is the product of the first century and the coming church, which of course encouraged and enabled this kind of thinking for the purpose of maintaining control and gaining powere to control the world. Revelation is a warning against this. .

I have no problem with time release medicine, but I do have a problem with chip implantation. Just who is going to be monitoring me and what kind of control would they want out of it? Look at how people nowadays love to control you enonymously through your computer.

Craig

I don't think we disagree that much. As to microchips being implanted there must be regulations that limit what the chip does. If the chip's function is to stabilize heart rhythms, block epileptic neuronal discharges and no effects on mental function, I see no problem.

I oppose any chips implanted for tracking the person, or otherwise exerting mental control by government or religious organisations. There has to be safeguards for all advanced technical investigations that study or alter brain functions.

Ardipithecus

 

[David69]

because of this...

To see the truth, you have to turn it upside down.
999... this will be acceptable when the truth is reveiled... his real identity... It is his birthright!
not the angel of darkness but the Angel of light.

 

[Bennettresearch]

I never characterized your opinion, little as you appreciate this fact!



There is no need for me to do so because the Baha'i scriptures (as well as other books) already do so, whether YOU happen to like the fact or not! So our view stands.



Definitely not, as you'd already be aware if you actually knew anything about what we believe and teach! I said it refers to an event later on, well after the rise of Islam!

Not to mention which: the Bible itself states that the antichrist was a former Christian, thus invalidating your question.

Peace,

Bruce

Where does the Bible say that the Antichrist was a former christian? I'll give you a clue, it doesn't. This is the problem here. You came into my other thread and totally dismissed my delineation while insisting that I read your book. I'm not obligated to read it.

You have yet to provide anything of substance that refutes my delineation and what little you have provided does not pass the laugh test. You can stand on your book all that you want, it probably makes a good door stop.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Maybe this will help. DCLXVI = 666

OMG, you have just given away the secret identity of the Antichrist!!!!!

Craig

 

[David69]

OMG, you have just given away the secret identity of the Antichrist!!!!!

Craig

incorrect the code is six digits IMO, I am that mortal :angel2: