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Featured The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 15, 2019.

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  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Constantine set aside Sunday as a day of rest for the farmers.
    Thus, Constantine set up Christendom (Not Christianity ) as found in Scripture.
    The Lord's Day of Revelation 1:10 is just referring to our day or our time frame. Not a day of the week.
     
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Why would you think it is in reference to non believing gentile converts?
     
  3. Rival

    Rival Tender Warrior
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    I haven't a clue what you're talking about.
     
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    It seems so.

    How about this one...

    Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work:[10], But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, NOR THE FOREIGNER THAT IS WITHIN YOUR GATES: [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
     
  5. Rival

    Rival Tender Warrior
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    Glad we can agree on something, at last.
     
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  6. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    I personally do not think any of this matters.

    He wants us to set aside one day each week to worship Him.
     
  7. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    That's like saying God doesn't want us to murder people only we choose. Or Honouring our Father and Mother only when we feel like it.

    God set aside, "sanctified", the 7th day. God chose. Even as the Father chose the Son. Is salvation in others we choose other than the singular God chose?

    You seem to have a misapplication, or mis-reading of Romans 14, which isn't dealing with the sabbath at all. Or at the very least, a misunderstanding of Colossians 2, which is already addressed here: COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?
     
  8. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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  9. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    Those texts don't say the sabbath is only for "jews". Again, Zipporah wasn't a Jew, neither the mixed multitude. Moses was Hebrew of Levi.

    To begin with, Jesus Christ is the true Israel, the anti-type, the Israel that is not the type as Jacob was.

    Jesus is Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the true "overcomer" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), the real "Prince" with God (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5), being Lord over His own house, whose house are we (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

    Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21

    'Israel' "after the flesh", as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

    The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel” (Jesus Christ, the "elect" of the Father; Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18-20), this “Judah” (Revelation 5:5) and His “house” (2 Corinthians 1:20 KJB - For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.; – for Christ Jesus, the true “Israel” is the “elect” of God, and thus all who choose to be in Him; see Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9 KJB)

    Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of [the] man.
    Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    See that verse 13? it reads in Hebrew:

    Ecc 12:13 סוף דבר הכל נשׁמע את־האלהים ירא ואת־מצותיו שׁמור כי־זה כל־האדם׃
    Ecc 12:14 כי את־כל־מעשׂה האלהים יבא במשׁפט על כל־נעלם אם־טוב ואם־רע׃

    Just in case you don't read Hebrew, here's transliterated Hebrew:

    12:13 šôf Dävär haKol nish'mä et-häélohiym y'rä w'et-mitz'wotäyw sh'môr Kiy-zeh Käl-ädäm
    12:14 Kiy et-Käl-maáseh häélohiym yävi v'mish'Pä† al Käl-ne'läm im-†ôv w'im-rä

    Thus, all mankind of Adam are to keep God's commandments. Not only Adam the first, but also Adam the Last, for the Sabbath was made for "the man":

    Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for [the] man, and not [the] man for the sabbath:

    Mar 2:27 και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον

    Gen 1:27 so called LXX καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον, κατ᾿ εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν, ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς.

    Notice:

    1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    So is Jesus another (last) Adam, the second "man", according to the texts?

    The "sabbath" was "made" (creation; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:11) for "the man", yes?


    Good, now read:

    Col 1:16 For by him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Col 1:16 HNTDD כי־בו נברא כל אשר בשמים ואשר בארץ כל הנראה וכל אשר־איננו נראה הן כסאות וממשלות הן שררות ורשיות הכל נברא על־ידו ולמענהו׃

    Therefore, Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, who speaks what Jesus says, coming in His name, says that the Sabbath was made/created "for him [Jesus]", and thus all in him, even as it was for the original Adam and all in him.
     
  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Resting on the 7th day Sabbath was a reminder to Israel that God created the heavens and the earth in literal 24 hour days and rested on the 7th. This commemorative of the old creation was given specifically to Israel and only Israel to whom God has promised a special position on earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ.
    ( Ex. 31:18; Ps. 147:18-19; Mal. 4:4).
    Those in the church, born again believers, whether Jews or Gentiles are called out of this world and are “NEW CREATIONS” in CHRIST who celebrate and look forward to the New Heaven and New Earth.
    ( 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15; 2 Peter 3: 13; Rev. 21:11)
    Instead of celebrating the old creation, those in Christ follow the example of the early church ( Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2) who met together to worship on the first day of a new week, the day of our Lord’s resurrection as the “firstborn from the dead “( Col. 1:18) looking forward to the resurrection and being made like Jesus to live with Him forever.
     
    #50 InChrist, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    You may want to look at the scriptures in the new testament as ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word * Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Ephesians 2:11-13 (the Church). Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL than you have no part in the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12.

    According to Gods' WORD, JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for all mankind *Mark 2:27. If the Sabbath was made for all mankind there was NO SIN, NO JEW, NO MOSES and NO ISRAEL when that Sabbath was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3.

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
     
  12. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-11-16_21-30-58.jpeg

    Matthew 26:55
    In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.

    Mark 14:49
    Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.”

    Jesus was in the temple courts Every day, and that means including Sunday.

    Acts 2:42-46 New International Version (NIV)
    They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

    The apostles and the early church were in the temple courts Every day, and that means including Sunday.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    In the book of Romans, interestingly there is no discussion of either communion or the Sabath. Romans does say a guiding principle is to cut the vegetarians some slack and some honor one day, some all days are alike but let each man be convinced in their own mind. I would say respect of conscience is importance given the priesthood of believers and their personal responsibility toward God

    In Hebrews there is another principle where the greater Sabbath is leaning on and trusting Jesus work on the cross and the rest that comes from that

    In the expamples of the gospels, the resurrection appearances were on Sunday, the only named day for a communion celebration in the New Testament was Sunday in the book of Acts, gifts were taken in Corinthians on Sunday

    In the end 'let no man be your judge with regard to the Sabbath" is is a shadow and the one casting the shadow is Jesus

    However you celebrate 'the Lord's day' , it should be in good conscience . I think there is substantial reason for accepting the Lord's day being Sunday in good conscience
    and one last point is people should be generous with views of treating the Lords day special and not being overly dismissive as the Sabbath language does appear in Isaiah post chapter 53
     
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  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    God's 4th commandments has nothing to do with what day you go to church so I do not know what point your trying to make in relation to Sunday being "THE LORDS DAY" which is what the OP is about.
     
    #54 3rdAngel, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hello whirlingmerc nice to meet you brother :). Some comments for your consideration provided below.
    Agreed. ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

    LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

    There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.
    Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is talking about both God's rest defined in Hebrews 4:1-5 as God's seventh day Sabbath and those who did not enter into God's rest because they did not believe and follow Gods' Word (the Gospel) and how we enter into God's rest by believing and following Gods' Word (the Gospel). Hebrews 4 is saying the same thing to us today. We cannot enter into Gods' seventh day Sabbath rest without first believing and following God's Word and receiving the gospel rest which leads to Hebrews 4:9 Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath. Only those who believe and follow God's Word enter into God's rest (the Sabbath).
    Actually no! The disciples met everyday of the week breaking bread and had all things in common *Acts 2:47-48. That does not mean that everyday is now set apart and blessed by God and made a holy day now does it? Of course not! The reason why Paul asked for a collection on the first day of the week in 1 Corinthians 16:1-8 was because Paul was not staying but was passing through on his way to Jerusalem. Once again this scripture does not say God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day now does it? - Nope!
    These scriptures are not talking about God's 4th commandment but the shadow sabbaths (plural) in feast days. If your interested in a very detailed scripture response proving context please see post 1; post 2; post 3; post 4 and post 5 linked.
    Well this is what the OP is about. Can you prove from the scriptures that "Sunday" or the first day of the week is "THE LORDS DAY"? - You cannot can you. This is a teaching and tradition of men that has led many to break the commandments of God.

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
     
  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    The Lord's day is the second coming of Jesus Christ....

    As for the Seventh day Sabbath or Sunday
    Jesus Christ is the Christians rest..We as Christians rest in Jesus Christ and not on any day of the week.

    Jesus Christ fulfilled the Sabbath..by keeping it himself.
    Therefore as Christians we rest in Jesus Christ

    This why Jesus Christ said in
    Matthew 11:28---"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"

    Therefore we rest in Jesus Christ and not on any day of the week.
     
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  17. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    The OP quoted Matthew 12:8 but the verses say that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath no mention here negating a day or confirming a day as the Lord's day.

    Now, en.wiki says this about the Lord's day.

    The Lord's Day in Christianity is generally Sunday, the principal day of communal worship. It is observed by most Christians as the weekly memorial of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is said in the canonical Gospels to have been witnessed alive from the dead early on the first day of the week.

    Full article is in Lord's Day - Wikipedia

    Hence the generally accepted term when one say Lord's Day would that term.
    As I have pointed out the Lord Jesus Christ worship and was in the temple courts every day
    Also rightly pointed out that the apostles and the first church worship and was in the temple courts every day
    When people say every day, that would include Sunday to Saturday
    For me everyday is a special day, every day is a fine day to worship God


    [​IMG]


    Romans 14:5-6 Living Bible (TLB)
    Some think that Christians should observe the Jewish holidays as special days to worship God, but others say it is wrong and foolish to go to all that trouble, for every day alike belongs to God. On questions of this kind everyone must decide for himself. If you have special days for worshiping the Lord, you are trying to honor him; you are doing a good thing. So is the person who eats meat that has been offered to idols; he is thankful to the Lord for it; he is doing right. And the person who won’t touch such meat, he, too, is anxious to please the Lord, and is thankful.
     
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  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    To me, this is all so obvious that it blows my mind when people become obsessed with one day of the week versus another as being the true Sabbath. Do some people really think that there have never been any glitches in our system of accounting for the passage of days since the beginning of time? Honestly, I can't even imagine God being so petty as to hold it against someone for picking the "wrong 7th day."
     
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Acually it is not. Your getting "THE LORDS DAY" confused with "THE DAY OF THE LORD".
    Not according to scripture. The Sabbath is defined as the "seventh day" of the week *Matthew 12:8; Hebrews 4:1-5; Genesis 2:1-3. "Thereforw it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath" Hebrews 4:9. There is no scripture that says JESUS is a Sabbath.
    This is talking about the Gospel rest of believing and following God's Word not God's seventh day Sabbath.

    God bless.
     
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Not really brother. The OP asks the question and provides the answer from the scripture....

    Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?

    A.
    MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

    God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

    There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

    Than the OP puts out the challenge...

    Can you show from the scriptures alone that Sunday is "THE LORDS DAY" if not why not? If we cannot are we following man made teachings that break the commandments of God that JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9?

    Do you have any scripture showing that SUNDAY is "THE LORDS DAY"? If you do not than your simply following man made teachings and traditions that are not biblical.

    You were not asked for man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. You were asked for scripture that says "SUNDAY" is "THE LORDS DAY" - You have none do you. If you have no scripture who are you following; the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God?

    Not really you simply ignored the post and the scriptures you were posting from that show why your in error and are simply repeating yourself without addressing the scriptures and content of of the post that already addressed this claim of yours from God's Word. God's 4th commandments has nothing to do with what day you go to church so I do not know what point your trying to make in relation to Sunday being "THE LORDS DAY" which is what the OP is about.

    The disciples met everyday of the week breaking bread and had all things in common *Acts 2:47-48. That does not mean that everyday is now set apart and blessed by God and made a holy day now does it? Of course not! Once again this scripture does not say God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day now does it? - Nope! You have none do you. If you have no scripture who are you following; the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God?

    God set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week and blessed the "seventh day" and made it a "holy day" of "rest" * Genesis 2:1-3 for all mankind *Mark 2:27 and made it one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20. If we break it when God gives us a knowledge of the truth just like every one commandment we stand guily before God of sin *James 2:10-11. All those who knowingly continue in sin will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of grace *Hebrews 10:26-39; Romans 6:23; Acts 17:30-31.

    There is nothing wrong with the scripture. Thank you for sharing. It is your interpretation of it that is in error. ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

    LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

    There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments.

    Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

    Hope this helps.
     
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