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The Lord's Day, is it really Sunday?

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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
When was the seventh day? Which day did God start creating?

Our days of the week are named after Roman gods. :confused:

Whatever day you want to clam as the 7th, it all seems pretty arbitrary.
I agree, but the only day named after a Roman god is Saturday. The rest are Germanic, as English is a Germanic language.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
To me, this is all so obvious that it blows my mind when people become obsessed with one day of the week versus another as being the true Sabbath. Do some people really think that there have never been any glitches in our system of accounting for the passage of days since the beginning of time? Honestly, I can't even imagine God being so petty as to hold it against someone for picking the "wrong 7th day."

It is not a matter of being obsessed about a day it is simply providing warnings from God's Word about sin and following man made teachings and tradtions that have led many to break God's commandments that JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9. The Sabbath has been kept unbroken all through time to the very days of JESUS and the Apostles after the death, buriel and resurrection of Christ and to the disciples after the Apostles all through time to this very present day. The JEWS have kept it unbroken for 6000 years so the day has never been lost. It is not about God being petty. Sin is disobedience to any one of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10. God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who are not do not hear and do not follow *John 10:1-10; John 10:26-27. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions *Matthew 15:3-9 wherever they may be, back to the pure Word of God to worship him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth. This hour has now come and now is.

May you hear his Word and be blessed.
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
... Do some people really think that there have never been any glitches in our system of accounting for the passage of days since the beginning of time? ...
Chronologists, who specialize in such things, say no time has been lost, at all:

US Naval Observatory
navalob.gif

Greenwich, Royal Observatory
royal-ob.gif
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
God's 4th commandments has nothing to do with what day you go to church so I do not know what point your trying to make in relation to Sunday being "THE LORDS DAY" which is what the OP is about.

9569250-International-Date-Line-0.jpg


What happens when you cross the international date line?
The International Date Line runs down the middle of the Pacific Ocean. If you cross the date line moving east, you subtract a day, whereas if you are moving west you add a day. For example, if today is Friday and we crossed the International Date line from west to east then it would be Thursday.
International Date Line - Wikipedia

My position are:
  1. The Lord's Day is every day
  2. Sunday and Saturdays are okay
  3. I'm Christian not a Jew
  4. We don't share the same days as separated by the International Date Line
mar-2-27-ww-mf.jpg


Why did the Lord Jesus said it and it is clear isn't it?
Why should Sabbath be a burdensome yoke with so much regulations?
Why so much fuzz over which is the Lord's day when God made all days, His days?
That shouldn't be the case. That is why the Lord Jesus said he is the Lord of Sabbath.
Why is that so?

Matthew 11:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
9569250-International-Date-Line-0.jpg


What happens when you cross the international date line?
The International Date Line runs down the middle of the Pacific Ocean. If you cross the date line moving east, you subtract a day, whereas if you are moving west you add a day. For example, if today is Friday and we crossed the International Date line from west to east then it would be Thursday.
International Date Line - Wikipedia

...
I actually live 'on' (very near) the dateline at present. There is no real issue, only an imaginary one for people who either do not understand their position relative to the sun on the globe/planet, or to those who simply refuse to keep God's commandments, and merely look for any excuse. Once the 'line' is crossed, the person is now in differing perspective to sunrise/sunset (opposite side) - the day didn't change at all, the person in relation to the day is now changed. Sabbath (7th day) keepers and sunday ('first day') goers, and all other manner of people cross both ways (US to Australia, Australia to US, etc; Samoa to Amer. Samoa, etc), and make the recognized change. The days of the week are not altered at all (still 7), only the persons position in relation to the world and sun (thus 'day') is different.

God divided the world, in light and dark, in Genesis 1.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
I actually live 'on' (very near) the dateline at present. There is no real issue, only an imaginary one for people who either do not understand their position relative to the sun on the globe/planet, or to those who simply refuse to keep God's commandments, and merely look for any excuse. Once the 'line' is crossed, the person is now in differing perspective to sunrise/sunset (opposite side) - the day didn't change at all, the person in relation to the day is now changed. Sabbath (7th day) keepers and sunday ('first day') goers, and all other manner of people cross both ways (US to Australia, Australia to US, etc; Samoa to Amer. Samoa, etc), and make the recognized change. The days of the week are not altered at all (still 7), only the persons position in relation to the world and sun (thus 'day') is different.

God divided the world, in light and dark, in Genesis 1.

giphy.gif


Your Sabbath is not my Sabbath.
Next we live in different time zones and date

InternationalDateLine.jpg
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
I actually live 'on' (very near) the dateline at present.

Really?
I could see my country from the map below.
Philippines
It says Sunday and it is Sunday today 6:08 pm
Needless to say in America it is Saturday.
The Jewish Americans and 7th day Adventist are currently celebrating their Sabbaths
While the Filipino Seventh Day Adventist observed theirs yesterday.

InternationalDateLine.jpg
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
Really?
I could see my country from the map below.
Philippines
It says Sunday and it is Sunday today 6:08 pm
Needless to say in America it is Saturday.
The Jewish Americans and 7th day Adventist are currently celebrating their Sabbaths
While the Filipino Seventh Day Adventist observed theirs yesterday.
Yeah, that's how a round world works. The 'day', sunrise, sunset comes to each as the world turns.

I'm actually in Amer. Samoa, several short miles from the line. Talofa!
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
Point [1]: The [Def. art.] Sabbath, being the [Def. art.] 7th Day, is "made" [Creation] for "the [Def. art.] man", which "man" is anthropos, and in Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, etc is "Adam" and thus all mankind in him:

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for ["the"] man, and not ["the"] man for the sabbath: [* the definite article "the" is in the Greek manuscripts]

Mark 2:27 Greek with Strong's Numbers and Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes - καιG2532 CONJ ελεγενG3004 V-IAI-3S αυτοιςG846 P-DPM τοG3588 T-NSN σαββατονG4521 N-NSN διαG1223 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM ανθρωπονG444 N-ASM εγενετοG1096 V-2ADI-3S ουχG3756 PRT-N οG3588 T-NSM ανθρωποςG444 N-NSM διαG1223 PREP τοG3588 T-ASN σαββατονG4521 N-ASN​

Point [2]: God/Jesus "made" the Earth Round [Spherical]:

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:​

Point [3]: The 'day' [24 hrs] begins with "evening", followed by "morning", unto the next "evening":

Genesis 1:15 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

See also Genesis 1:8, 13,19, 23,31; Exodus 16:8; Daniel 8:26; etc

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.​

Point 4: "Evening" truly begins when the "sun" sets:

Genesis 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.​

Point 5: "Morning" is a "sun" rise:

Judges 9:33 And it shall be, that in the morning, as soon as the sun is up, thou shalt rise early, and set upon the city: and, behold, when he and the people that is with him come out against thee, then mayest thou do to them as thou shalt find occasion.​

Point 6: God kept the First Sabbath, which He Made for the man:

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Deuteronomy 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Deuteronomy 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Hebrews 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​

Point 7: Mankind was to multiply and "fill the earth":

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

Point 8: Mankind was eventually "scatter[ed]" over the face of the earth after the Tower of Babel and the Global Flood of Noah:

Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.​

Point 9: The 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, has not been lost in history, for God has preserved it, even unto a "thousand generations" [Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 105:8], and Jesus Himself kept the right day in the right manner [John 15:10], for He sinned not [2 Corinthians 5:21, etc], and sin is the transgression of the Law [1 John 3:4], and many others after Him, even throughout history [as some historical sources have already been cited, I will leave it at those for now]:

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

etc, etc. Therefore, the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God has come down to all of us even after all these years.​

Since the world/earth is round, the days come and go as the "sun" 'rises' or 'sets', and comes to each one of us where we are upon the earth, since we are all now scattered over its whole surface. "The Sabbath was made for [the] man", and thus so made to be a blessing to the individuals which keep it unto God, yet it will come relative to the individual persons in the respective locations upon the spheroid earth. For instance, if 1 person is in United States, and 2 person is in India, the Sabbath comes to each person in their respective positions, because the earth is round, and thus the "day" begins for one of the persons earlier than that of the other.

We can know from the scattering of the dispora of the Jews, and also of the Christians from Jerusalem, that the 7th Day Sabbath continued to be kept in those countries wherein they came unto according to the standard weeks time [7 days], and thus spread from Jerusalem westward [towards England, etc] and eastward [towards China, etc]. The 7th Day [the Sabbath of the LORD thy God] that comes to Jerusalem is still the same as then. The Sunday [first [day] of the week] that comes to Rome is the same as it was then. The two days are still next to each other, even as they are in the United States, wherein many Christians have come to.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
"Constantine chose Sunday to be the day for Christian worship as it already enjoyed special status in the Roman week. Named after the Pagan Sun God Invictus". (History channel)

Yep, Sol Invictus.
And you know you are going to celebrate that Roman holiday this December.
Your pastors would be busy arranging the tree and the gifts

upload_2019-11-17_18-13-0.jpeg



In the Julian calendar, December 25 marked the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year, after which the days begin to lengthen, cf. Vitruvius, "This time from the shortness of the days, is called Bruma (winter) and the days Brumales" (On Architecture, 9.3.3). In calculating the seasons, Pliny, too, remarks that the days begin to increase immediately after the winter solstice (bruma) on a.d. VIII kal. Ian (XVIII.221). For Ovid, bruma was the first of the new sun and the last of the old (Fasti, I.163), as it was for Servius, who equates the new sun (sol novus) with the eighth day before the Kalends of January (Commentary on the Aeneid of Virgil, VII.720; also II.472, "Bruma, that is, winter")—and Censorinus, who in turn identifies the new sun with the bruma, "a novo sole, id est a bruma" (De Die Natali, XXI.13)

Sol Invictus and Christmas
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for ["the"] man, and not ["the"] man for the sabbath: [* the definite article "the" is in the Greek manuscripts]

So what do you understand on this verse?

And do you folks there celebrate Christmas?

That is the feast of the Sol Invictus

One of the most debated topics relating to Sol Invictus is the date of the festival celebrating the day of his birth, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, and a celebration of a completely different deity that happens to fall at the same time: Christians' celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ on Christmas. While popular opinion of historians has changed over time to disagree that there is an intended conflict between the holidays, this date overlapping is an oft-cited example of early Christianity leveraging existing Pagan holidays to bolster their support and ease the transition of followers and it is still believed to be the case by some experts.

The title of "Sol Invictus" comes and goes throughout the history of Rome, sometimes as part of a relatively minor cult and sometimes being risen up to be the premier object of Roman worship, such as during the reigns of both Emperors Elegabalus and Aurelian. While it is an object of debate whether these various instances of Sol, Invictus, and Sol Invictus are actually referring to the same subject of worship, they share a common thread of being a sun god. During the reign of Emperor Aurelian, however, worship of Sol Invictus reached its highest point, when a festival of the name "dies natalis Solis Invicti," or "birthday of the undefeated Sun," was possibly created. The earliest known recording of this festival is in 354 AD in the Calendar of Filaclus, where it is placed during the winter solstice, which at that time was December the 25th.

There are a great number of potential connections between Christian traditions and the festival of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, and the debate as to whether Christmas was intended to replace this festival tends to focus on the intentionality of these connections. Jesus Christ is very frequently depicted with features that were previously associated with sun gods, such as a halo or a radiating crown of light appearing on his head. The festival of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti is sometimes associated with another pagan festival, Saturnalia, which is said to have ended on December 23, just before Dies Natalis Solis Invicti. Saturnalia consisted of a great deal of celebration and partying, as well as a good deal of traditions such as gift giving and reversal of slave and master roles. It is possible that some of these traditions, such as gift giving, were incorporated into Christmas traditions. Other aspects of Saturnalia, such as the partying and debauchery, may have been intentionally replaced by Christianity by shifting the focus of the season towards the birth of Christ.

The placement of Christmas at the winter solstice may have also been just a coincidence, as the winter solstice was a prominent date for many peoples regardless of Sol Invictus's influence. If this was the case, then the Christians were likely aware of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, but it was not a deciding factor in the placement of Christmas. There are also beliefs that it was placed on December 25 for more esoteric reasons. One such example is the traditional Jewish belief that great men lived for a whole number of years. Jesus Christ died on March 25, which would mean that he was created on March 25 as well. Rather than that making March 25 the day of his birth, it may have been thought to be the day of his conception, making his birth 9 months later on December 25. Finally, the earliest known record of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti is 354 AD, long after the birth of Christ. While Christmas was not celebrated until after this date, it is possible that records placed Jesus' birth at December 25 and had nothing to do with Dies Natalis Solis Invicti or the winter solstice.

Sol Invictus and Christmas - Sol Invictus
 

Crosstian

Baring the Cross
... And you know you are going to celebrate that Roman holiday this December.
Your pastors would be busy arranging the tree and the gifts

...
The counsel is wise:

"... Shall We Have a Christmas Tree?"--God would be well pleased if on Christmas each church would have a Christmas tree on which shall be hung offerings, great and small, for these houses of worship. [NOTE: REFERENCE IS MADE IN THIS ARTICLE TO CURRENT BUILDING PROJECTS. AS THE PRINCIPLES SET FORTH IN THIS CONNECTION ARE APPLICABLE TODAY, THESE SPECIFIC REFERENCES ARE LEFT IN THE ARTICLE.] Letters of inquiry have come to us asking, Shall we have a Christmas tree? Will it not be like the world? We answer, You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible. There is no particular sin in selecting a fragrant evergreen and placing it in our churches, but the sin lies in the motive which prompts to action and the use which is made of the gifts placed upon the tree. {AH 482.1}

The tree may be as tall and its branches as wide as shall best suit the occasion; but let its boughs be laden with the golden and silver fruit of your beneficence, and present this to Him as your Christmas gift. Let your donations be sanctified by prayer. {AH 482.2}

Christmas and New Year celebrations can and should be held in behalf of those who are helpless. God is glorified when we give to help those who have large families to support. {AH 482.3}

A Tree Laden With Offerings Is Not Sinful.--Let not the parents take the position that an evergreen placed in the church for the amusement of the Sabbath school scholars is a sin, for it may be made a great blessing. Keep before their minds benevolent objects. In no case should mere amusement be the object of these gatherings. While there may be some who will turn these occasions into seasons of careless levity, and whose minds will not receive the divine impress, to other minds and characters [483] these seasons will be highly beneficial. I am fully satisfied that innocent substitutes can be devised for many gatherings that demoralize. {AH 482.4} ..." - Adventist Home, pages 482.1-482.4

The 'tree' in this proper use, is used to not receive, but to give, for the church, and its work in ministering to the needs of the poor around them. For instance, in some churches, offerings of gift cards, socks, food baskets, etc are brought for the work of the LORD, and for the help of the worthy poor.

The evergreen tree is made by God, and is His symbol of an ever flourishing life, green through the heat of persecution, green through the coldness of others, etc, and though it has been usurped by the devil for nefarious purposes, yet, does a Christian give up the symbol of the rainbow, simply because it has been hijacked by the reprobate?

You do know of Booths?

Neh 8:15 And that they should publish and proclaim in all their cities, and in Jerusalem, saying, Go forth unto the mount, and fetch olive branches, and pine branches, and myrtle branches, and palm branches, and branches of thick trees, to make booths, as it is written.
Neh 8:16 So the people went forth, and brought them, and made themselves booths, every one upon the roof of his house, and in their courts, and in the courts of the house of God, and in the street of the water gate, and in the street of the gate of Ephraim.​

You do know of the trees upon the walls of the sanctuary?

1Ki 6:29 And he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, within and without.

Eze_41:25 And there were made on them, on the doors of the temple, cherubims and palm trees, like as were made upon the walls; and there were thick planks upon the face of the porch without.​

Therefore,

Gal_6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.​

"... Jesus Not to Be Forgotten.--Brethren and sisters, while you are devising gifts for one another, I would remind you of our heavenly Friend, lest you should be unmindful of His claims. Will He not be pleased if we show that we have not forgotten Him? Jesus, the Prince of life, gave all to bring salvation within our reach. . . . He suffered even unto death, that He might give us eternal life. {AH 480.1}

It is through Christ that we receive every blessing. . . . Shall not our heavenly Benefactor share in the tokens of our gratitude and love? Come, brethren and sisters, come with your children, even the babes in your arms, and bring your offerings to God according to your ability. Make melody to Him in your hearts, and let His praise be upon your lips. {AH 480.2}

Christmas--a Time to Honor God.--By the world the holidays are spent in frivolity and extravagance, gluttony and display. . . . Thousands of dollars will be worse than thrown away upon the coming Christmas and New Year's in needless indulgences. But it is our privilege to depart from the customs and practices of this degenerate age; and instead of expending means merely for the gratification of the appetite or for needless ornaments or articles of clothing, we may make the coming holidays an occasion in which to honor and glorify God. {AH 480.3}

Christ should be the supreme object; but as Christmas has been observed, the glory is turned from Him to mortal man, whose sinful, defective character made it necessary for Him to come to our world.[481] {AH 480.4}

Jesus, the Majesty of heaven, the royal King of heaven, laid aside His royalty, left His throne of glory, His high command, and came into our world to bring to fallen man, weakened in moral power and corrupted by sin, aid divine. . . . {AH 481.1}

Parents should keep these things before their children and instruct them, line upon line, precept upon precept, in their obligation to God--not their obligation to each other, to honor and glorify one another by gifts and offerings. {AH 481.2}

Turn Thoughts of the Children Into a New Channel.-- There are many things which can be devised with taste and cost far less than the unnecessary presents that are so frequently bestowed upon our children and relatives, and thus courtesy can be shown and happiness brought into the home. {AH 481.3}

You can teach your children a lesson while you explain to them the reason why you have made a change in the value of their presents, telling them that you are convinced that you have hitherto considered their pleasure more than the glory of God. Tell them that you have thought more of your own pleasure and of their gratification and of keeping in harmony with the customs and traditions of the world, in making presents to those who did not need them, than you have of advancing the cause of God. Like the wise men of old, you may offer to God your best gifts and show by your offerings to Him that you appreciate His Gift to a sinful world. Set your children's thoughts running in a new, unselfish channel by inciting them to present offerings to God for the gift of His only-begotten Son.[482] {AH 481.4} ..." - Adventist Home, pages 480.1-481.4

I truly see your purpose. Thanks, we're done.
 
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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
"... Shall We Have a Christmas Tree?"--God would be well pleased if on Christmas each church would have a Christmas tree on which shall be hung offerings, great and small, for these houses of worship. [NOTE: REFERENCE IS MADE IN THIS ARTICLE TO CURRENT BUILDING PROJECTS. AS THE PRINCIPLES SET FORTH IN THIS CONNECTION ARE APPLICABLE TODAY, THESE SPECIFIC REFERENCES ARE LEFT IN THE ARTICLE.] Letters of inquiry have come to us asking, Shall we have a Christmas tree? Will it not be like the world? We answer, You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible. There is no particular sin in selecting a fragrant evergreen and placing it in our churches, but the sin lies in the motive which prompts to action and the use which is made of the gifts placed upon the tree. {AH 482.1}

AH? AH? What is that AH 482.1?
A reference from one of Ellen G White's books?
Now you are leaving the Bible and we are going to the teachings of men or woman for that matter.



@3rdAngel

Is Christmas Really the Day Jesus Was Born?
In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger.

By holding Christmas at the same time as traditional winter solstice festivals, church leaders increased the chances that Christmas would be popularly embraced, but gave up the ability to dictate how it was celebrated. By the Middle Ages, Christianity had, for the most part, replaced pagan religion. On Christmas, believers attended church, then celebrated raucously in a drunken, carnival-like atmosphere similar to today’s Mardi Gras. Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the “lord of misrule” and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. The poor would go to the houses of the rich and demand their best food and drink. If owners failed to comply, their visitors would most likely terrorize them with mischief. Christmas became the time of year when the upper classes could repay their real or imagined “debt” to society by entertaining less fortunate citizens.
https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas

Isaiah 2:6 New International Version (NIV)
You, Lord, have abandoned your people,
the descendants of Jacob.
They are full of superstitions from the East;
they practice divination like the Philistines
and embrace pagan customs.

Matthew 15:3 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

Sol+Invictus%3A+Roman+Saturnalia.jpg
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
You know, it's easy to quote random scripture, but to actually look up the why and how of church decisions is apparently too much trouble.

It matters that church leaders picked it. Not that OT text says otherwise. There is important distinction in diet too. Jews still keep kosher, Jesus declared all food clean.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's how a round world works. The 'day', sunrise, sunset comes to each as the world turns.

I'm actually in Amer. Samoa, several short miles from the line. Talofa!

Very nice. Googled American Samoa.
We have Church activities there.

 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
AH? AH? What is that AH 482.1?
A reference from one of Ellen G White's books?
Now you are leaving the Bible and we are going to the teachings of men or woman for that matter.

@3rdAngel

Is Christmas Really the Day Jesus Was Born?
In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger.

By holding Christmas at the same time as traditional winter solstice festivals, church leaders increased the chances that Christmas would be popularly embraced, but gave up the ability to dictate how it was celebrated. By the Middle Ages, Christianity had, for the most part, replaced pagan religion. On Christmas, believers attended church, then celebrated raucously in a drunken, carnival-like atmosphere similar to today’s Mardi Gras. Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the “lord of misrule” and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. The poor would go to the houses of the rich and demand their best food and drink. If owners failed to comply, their visitors would most likely terrorize them with mischief. Christmas became the time of year when the upper classes could repay their real or imagined “debt” to society by entertaining less fortunate citizens.
https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas

Isaiah 2:6 New International Version (NIV)
You, Lord, have abandoned your people,
the descendants of Jacob.
They are full of superstitions from the East;
they practice divination like the Philistines
and embrace pagan customs.

Matthew 15:3 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

Hello, I do not follow Christmas. This thread and OP has nothing to do with Christmas. Now did you have anything to share in relation to the OP and if not why not? Where is the scripture that says "SUNDAY" is "THE LORDS DAY"? You do not have any scripture now do you. If there is no scripture who are you following, the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? JESUS says those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Who should we believe and follow; JESUS or the teachings and tradtions of men that break the commandments of God?

How do you follow?
 
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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Hello, I do not follow Christmas. Now did you have anything to share in relation to the OP and if not why not? Where is the scripture that says "SUNDAY" is "THE LORDS DAY"? You do not have any scripture now do you. If there is no scripture who are you following, the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? JESUS says those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Who should we believe and follow; JESUS or the teachings and tradtions of men that break the commandments of God?

How do you follow?

One of the traditions of men is Christmas.
I used to celebrate Christmas when I was Catholic
Now, hate to celebrate that.

The Seventh Day Adventists celebrate Christmas
which is a pagan festival - originally Sol Invictus
then became Saturnalia and evolved into Christmas
Chapter 77—Christmas The Adventist Home

Why adopt a baseless pagan derived feast like Christmas?
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Do you celebrate Christmas?
Does the church you belong celebrate Christmas?
If yes, you are celebrating the most wonderful time of the year....

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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Where is the scripture that says "SUNDAY" is "THE LORDS DAY"?

Everyday is the Lord's Day.

Psalm 88:9 New International Version (NIV)
my eyes are dim with grief.

I call to you, Lord, every day;
I spread out my hands to you.
 
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