The LORD is my shepherd

[The Anointed]

Apple is a fruit.
Banana is a fruit.
Therefore, banana is an apple.

Yep - makes sense to me.

I'm wit ya mate.

 

[Redemptionsong]

But flesh and blood cannot enter there, so how in the hell did you get there to speak with them?

My witnesses have come to earth in the very witnesses that you proclaim!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Apple is a fruit.
Banana is a fruit.
Therefore, banana is an apple.

Yep - makes sense to me.

Or, more accurately, both the banana and the apple are fruit!

 

[Misty Woods]

I would like to take the liberty to add:

Since the NT was Not originally written in English we find the same Greek grammar rule applies at John1:1 and at Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B
The letter ' a ' was added at John 1 but the letter ' a' was inserted at Acts even though the same Greek grammar rule applies in both verses.

Psalms 90:2 informs us that God had No beginning: meaning God is from everlasting ( No beginning )
Whereas pre-human Jesus was " IN " the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.....
This is why John believed that Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God as John wrote about pre-human Jesus at Revelation 3:12

I appreciate very much your addition to this subject

 

[Misty Woods]

You can guarantee that where people have difficulty explaining a passage of scripture they will do the next best thing - alter it!

I am in full agreement with the argument that scripture is an 'unbroken' revelation. Scripture interprets scripture, and faithful exegesis only turns to personal interpretation when the internal integrity of scripture is abandoned.

On another thread, 'Solomon's big question', I attempted to show that the question that trinitarians and unitarians should be trying to answer is the question posed by Solomon; 'But will God in very deed dwell with men on earth?'

I am not at all concerned about specific denominational or theological standpoints on the trinity. When discussing this issue it's the use of the scriptures, in the light of the Holy Spirit's revelation, that interests me. So you can forget all the encyclopedic references to the trinity. I'm interested in the passages of scripture that tell us that God has come to dwell on earth - or not.

“Everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong. Heb 5:13,14

Throughout our lengthy communication, Our Father Jehovah, has provided much inspired scripture, regarding the most basic of common sense knowledge (the milk), that more than explains who He is, who his son is, and what exactly is the Holy Spirit……Sadly, each time you have chose instead, to continue with your empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense, that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ. Col 2:8…. However, you are deceiving yourself, for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: ’He catches the wise in their own cunning” and again: ‘Jehovah knows that the reasoning’s of the wise men are futile” 1 Cor 3:18-20

Because I have a deep love and appreciation for our Grand Creator, I humbly choose to belong to Christ, and Christ in turn, belongs to God (Christ is not God, rather Christ belongs to God )1Cor 3:23. Therefore, I must keep making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord, and stop sharing in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness, and rather, expose them for what they are Eph 5:10,11…. I must keep strict watch that how I walk is not as an unwise, but as a wise person, making the best use of my time, because the days are wicked. On this account, I must remain reasonable, and keep perceiving what the will of Jehovah is Eph 5:15-17. So on this account, I must guard what has been entrusted to me, and avoid any further irreverent, empty chatter and opposing arguments of so-called knowledge, that you insist on dishing out 1 Tim 6:20.

“If you correct conceited people, you will only be insulted. If you reprimand evil people, you will only get hurt. Never correct conceited people; they will hate you for it. But if you correct the wise, they will respect you.” Prov 9:7,8



2 Tim 3:1 “But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away…………… 8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men.

You have become dull in your hearing, for even though, as an adult, you should be teaching, yet here you are still nursing on milk (the elementary things), rather than solid food Heb 5:12,13 .

1 Cor 14:20 “Brothers, do not become young children in your understanding, but be young children as to badness; and become full-grown in your understanding.”

Eph 4:13 “until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown man, attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ.”




You are most welcome to try to demonstrate to me that Jesus Christ was NOT GOD COME TO EARTH. You must demonstrate that the Spirit of God was not in the man Jesus, because I am already convinced that Jesus Christ was 100% human. I am arguing that Jesus Christ was 100% human and 100% God. When you combine the two you have what is known as the Son of man and the Son of God. Yet, with spiritual insight, I am able to call Jesus Christ 'My Lord and my God'. It is He whom I serve, and He who has been given dominion over us, IMO.

In making your case, you should also understand the implications of God not coming to earth.
JW.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why do you insist in driving up a cul-de-sac?

You believe that Moses revealed God's words, but you refuse to accept that David or Ezekiel did the same.

I was very clear, and the text will back me up in this -- Ezekiel did not hear God's voice in the same mnner as Moses. Prophets hear God via visions and dreams. It's not s direct. Furthermore, David didn't hear God's voice at all. He was simply inspired. And he inspires us.

It is quite a big mistake for you to put all three on the same level when they are not.

 

[Deeje]

In your version of the revelation of God, we know very little about God. He never dwells within us as a Comforter, and he never lived amongst us as the Son of God (in Spirit).

The question l ask, in all sincerity, is, Do you know your God?

I do now....but growing up in the Anglican church, I never felt like I needed to. It was always assumed that just showing up to church once a week and taking communion was all that was necessary to 'prove' that you were a "Christian"....you didn't need to know much because the guy standing at the pulpit knew it all for you.

The trouble was, he was always more interested in our money to pay his stipend than he was in caring for his sheep. The more I investigated other "Christian" religions, the more it became obvious that money was always a key issue.

When my father died years ago, the church offered no support to my mother or to our family but landed on our doorstep a month later asking for money. In her grief, she had apparently neglected to put in her weekly contribution...that was it for me.

My husband (who was not a Christian) once did some maintenance work on the home of the local minister of the Uniting church in our small town, and he came home wondering what this guy did all day? He was always playing golf, whilst someone else mowed his lawns and cleaned his house and paid his way. He was always asking his congregation to give more, but interestingly when he was offered the job as chaplain for the professional golfing circuit, (quite a nice pay rate) he jumped at the chance, leaving his congregation with no pastor.

In my present location, the local minister of my former church, took the job as chaplain for the military in my state which has the pay rate of a captain.....not only was he supporting an organization dedicated to training for war and the killing of fellow humans, but he too left his church with no minister.

It always bothered me greatly that the church was up to its neck in war efforts, no matter what nation they were fighting for....and no matter if their own "brothers" were on the opposing side. How can politics divide those who are disciples of Christ? Jesus never once advocated bloodshed.....and especially not between his own disciples. (John 13:34-35) This is where I believe true Christians stand out. They will never allow their governments to dictate their Christianity. Being "no part of the world" means that its squabbles are none of our business. (John 18:36) We are not citizens of any earthly kingdom......but we will always be law-abiding.

It was also obvious to me that those who attended church did so out of some sense of duty, sadly picking up their "Christianity" at the door and leaving it there on their way out.....all of this gradually eroded any respect I ever had for the church system, no matter what label it wore. It was so broken.

So coming into the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses was somewhat like a breath of fresh air. No one asked for money although they needed it as well to pay the bills, but none of it went to support the ministers....(there was a body of elders, not just one minister) because no one is paid to do God's work. All services are free....weddings and funerals all performed gratis and there is never any fee charged for the use of our Kingdom Halls for such occasions. Even our yearly conventions though they incur great expense for the use of huge stadiums, the seats are always free. We just contribute what we can afford to help cover the cost. They never come up short.

You see, I know my God because he has directed me for most of my adult life. When you know God, he lets you know that he is right behind you...he's got your back as we fulfill our assignment in preaching about his Kingdom. Its very much a two way line of communication. Our prayers are not going to some remote big policeman in the sky, but to a trusted friend who cares deeply about us and who supports us through the inevitable trials and persecution that must come...

John 15:18-21.....Jesus said...
"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me."

You see the last sentence there...? Those who give God's people a hard time, especially those who think that they are doing God a favor by making things difficult for us....do not know the one who sent Jesus. We know him and many have tried to silence us the way the Jewish religious leaders of the first century wanted to silence the one who was exposing them as frauds and hypocrites.

Can I ask you if you are involved with a Christian group who actively preach about God's Kingdom? If I was to ask you in all sincerity, what is the "good news of the Kingdom" that Jesus told us to preach....how would you answer?

 

[Redemptionsong]

John 3:5-7.'Jesus answered , Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.'

Misty, you are quick to pass judgment, but do you know what it means to be 'born again'?

 

[Redemptionsong]

I was very clear, and the text will back me up in this -- Ezekiel did not hear God's voice in the same mnner as Moses. Prophets hear God via visions and dreams. It's not s direct. Furthermore, David didn't hear God's voice at all. He was simply inspired. And he inspires us.

It is quite a big mistake for you to put all three on the same level when they are not.

Next time our discussion will have to start with Moses; at least you trust the words of the Torah!

 

[Redemptionsong]

I do now....but growing up in the Anglican church, I never felt like I needed to. It was always assumed that just showing up to church once a week and taking communion was all that was necessary to 'prove' that you were a "Christian"....you didn't need to know much because the guy standing at the pulpit knew it all for you.

The trouble was, he was always more interested in our money to pay his stipend than he was in caring for his sheep. The more I investigated other "Christian" religions, the more it became obvious that money was always a key issue.

When my father died years ago, the church offered no support to my mother or to our family but landed on our doorstep a month later asking for money. In her grief, she had apparently neglected to put in her weekly contribution...that was it for me.

My husband (who was not a Christian) once did some maintenance work on the home of the local minister of the Uniting church in our small town, and he came home wondering what this guy did all day? He was always playing golf, whilst someone else mowed his lawns and cleaned his house and paid his way. He was always asking his congregation to give more, but interestingly when he was offered the job as chaplain for the professional golfing circuit, (quite a nice pay rate) he jumped at the chance, leaving his congregation with no pastor.

In my present location, the local minister of my former church, took the job as chaplain for the military in my state which has the pay rate of a captain.....not only was he supporting an organization dedicated to training for war and the killing of fellow humans, but he too left his church with no minister.

It always bothered me greatly that the church was up to its neck in war efforts, no matter what nation they were fighting for....and no matter if their own "brothers" were on the opposing side. How can politics divide those who are disciples of Christ? Jesus never once advocated bloodshed.....and especially not between his own disciples. (John 13:34-35) This is where I believe true Christians stand out. They will never allow their governments to dictate their Christianity. Being "no part of the world" means that its squabbles are none of our business. (John 18:36) We are not citizens of any earthly kingdom......but we will always be law-abiding.

It was also obvious to me that those who attended church did so out of some sense of duty, sadly picking up their "Christianity" at the door and leaving it there on their way out.....all of this gradually eroded any respect I ever had for the church system, no matter what label it wore. It was so broken.

So coming into the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses was somewhat like a breath of fresh air. No one asked for money although they needed it as well to pay the bills, but none of it went to support the ministers....(there was a body of elders, not just one minister) because no one is paid to do God's work. All services are free....weddings and funerals all performed gratis and there is never any fee charged for the use of our Kingdom Halls for such occasions. Even our yearly conventions though they incur great expense for the use of huge stadiums, the seats are always free. We just contribute what we can afford to help cover the cost. They never come up short.

You see, I know my God because he has directed me for most of my adult life. When you know God, he lets you know that he is right behind you...he's got your back as we fulfill our assignment in preaching about his Kingdom. Its very much a two way line of communication. Our prayers are not going to some remote big policeman in the sky, but to a trusted friend who cares deeply about us and who supports us through the inevitable trials and persecution that must come...

John 15:18-21.....Jesus said...
"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me."

You see the last sentence there...? Those who give God's people a hard time, especially those who think that they are doing God a favor by making things difficult for us....do not know the one who sent Jesus. We know him and many have tried to silence us the way the Jewish religious leaders of the first century wanted to silence the one who was exposing them as frauds and hypocrites.

Can I ask you if you are involved with a Christian group who actively preach about God's Kingdom? If I was to ask you in all sincerity, what is the "good news of the Kingdom" that Jesus told us to preach....how would you answer?

Deeje, it sounds like your experiences have for ever prejudiced your views. I'm inclined to go with Jesus' words in Matthew 13:24-30. He said, 'let both [the tares and wheat] grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn'.

There is no denomination of the Church that is completely without fault.

The picture presented of the seven churches in Revelation also demonstrates that God is not happy with certain types of believer. It all leaves me thinking that what matters is that we study scripture to discover the truth for ourselves. We then find other believers who share the same central beliefs.

What are those core beliefs? To me, the core belief is that Jesus Christ is OUR Saviour from sin and death [Luke 2:11; Luke 2:27-32]. The whole of the Hebrew scriptures point us towards the coming Messiah. Jesus demonstrates that he is the Messiah. All dominion has been given to Jesus Christ, and we, who follow Him, are His sheep!

Immanuel [Isaiah 7:14] means 'God with us', and to deny that God has come to dwell amongst men, is to deny the Saviour!

To preach the Gospel is to share that good news that God has come to earth to save us from sin and death. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh [John 1:14]. Through faith in Jesus Christ, we die to sin and are raised up a new spiritual creation in Christ.

I find this to be true in my own life. Christ is the goodness, and power, of God in my life.

Colossians 3:23,24. 'And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ'.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Sorry, Misty, but because your post conflated the two messages, I have failed to separate them!

 

[Deeje]

Deeje, it sounds like your experiences have for ever prejudiced your views.

I think you are right....but I also know that in my search for God, I did not find him in any part of Christendom, or anywhere outside in other faiths either. To me, Christendom are the "Tares". They all hold to the same core teachings, none of which are taught in scripture.

Do you know what the 'tares' in this illustration were? It is believed to be a poisonous weed called 'bearded darnel' and it is known in the Middle East as "wheat's evil twin" because it looks just like wheat in the growing stages of its life. Only at the harvest can you tell the difference. It was spitefully used to ruin an enemy's crop in Bible times. The sower of this 'weed' is the devil who knew exactly what he was doing. He gave people a counterfeit and that counterfeit Christianity fed people for many centuries, altering their perceptions of God and his Christ, thereby leading them down the wrong track, just as he did with Judaism. The traditions of men were substituted for God's word. My studies of the scriptures have pinpointed exactly where those lies came from.

I'm inclined to go with Jesus' words in Matthew 13:24-30. He said, 'let both [the tares and wheat] grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn'.

There is no denomination of the Church that is completely without fault.

What was the point of Jesus telling his servants to let them both grow together until the harvest time? Isn't it because only then will the difference between the two be obvious, not only to the reapers who will gather them up, but to the wheat as well. Unless we know what the difference is, how can we make the right choices in following the teachings of Jesus? Unless you know what a counterfeit looks like, you could accept it as the real thing...

It is obvious from the response that Jesus gets from those 'weeds' at the judgment, that they have no idea that he will reject them completely as those he "never knew". (Matthew 7:21-23) They make excuses by enumerating all the things they did 'in his name'...but Jesus tells them to get away from him and calls them "workers of lawlessness." What is this lawlessness? We have to know so that we do not engage in it ourselves.

 

[Deeje]

The picture presented of the seven churches in Revelation also demonstrates that God is not happy with certain types of believer. It all leaves me thinking that what matters is that we study scripture to discover the truth for ourselves. We then find other believers who share the same central beliefs.

That actually makes no sense because we are to be preachers of the word and promoters of God's Kingdom and his truth.....how is that possible if we do not all believe the same truth? (1 Corinthians 1:10) We have to separate out from a corrupt religious system, just as the first Christians did. We see that Christendom has adopted all manner of beliefs and customs from pagan religions, so if we promote these to others, we make them subjects for gehenna as much as ourselves. (Matthew 23:15) We can trace all these false religious errors back to Babylon, which was the springboard for spreading false religion all around the world.

Today there is a 'greater Babylon'...a religious empire built by the devil where he has accomplished something that most people are not even aware of....
1 John 5:19...
"We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
The same one who sowed the weeds. How much of the "whole world" is unaffected by his influence?

Matthew 13:19...
"Where anyone hears the word of the Kingdom but does not get the sense of it, the wicked one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart; this is the one sown alongside the road."
How many people actually know what God's Kingdom is? They think they know but when you ask them to explain it from the Bible can't quite put it into words. Its a special kind of blindness. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

This is the work of our mutual enemy and his empire has much blood on its hands. God's command is this....
Revelation 18:4-5...
"And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind."

Did you notice that "God's people" are in Babylon the great and must get out?
We cannot be found in "Babylon the great" or we will reap the same punishment as she does.
If you do not know what Babylon the great is, how can you remove yourself from it?

 

[Deeje]

What are those core beliefs? To me, the core belief is that Jesus Christ is OUR Saviour from sin and death [Luke 2:11; Luke 2:27-32]. The whole of the Hebrew scriptures point us towards the coming Messiah. Jesus demonstrates that he is the Messiah. All dominion has been given to Jesus Christ, and we, who follow Him, are His sheep!

Yes I agree. But the savior was sent by one who is a greater Savior. The one sent is not equal to the one who sent him if that one is described as his "servant". (Acts 3:13) That is where we diverge I believe. The relationship between Father and son is not the same as that described with the holy spirit. At no time does God say that he loves the holy spirit or that Jesus loves the holy spirit....or that the holy spirit loves anyone. If these three are equal persons, why is that, since words of affection are expressed by Christ and his Father for each other many times?
Why is the holy spirit missing from John 17:3?

Immanuel [Isaiah 7:14] means 'God with us', and to deny that God has come to dwell amongst men, is to deny the Saviour!

I believe that you are putting your own spin on this expression. God was "with" his people Israel without being physically present. He directed them through his human representatives. Jesus came as his "Logos"...his representative....his servant, to guide people out of a corrupted religious system, taken off track by men who put their own spin on the scriptures until they became too burdensome for those lost sheep to carry. Once Jesus had showed those lost sheep that they could find good pasture under his shepherding, they followed him out of that corrupted system and into a new sheepfold. But the devil would infiltrate that too, but very craftily.

To preach the Gospel is to share that good news that God has come to earth to save us from sin and death. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh [John 1:14]. Through faith in Jesus Christ, we die to sin and are raised up a new spiritual creation in Christ.

This is Christendom's teaching and it is one I reject outright. Jesus is not God in the flesh and not all who identify as Christians will go to heaven. If you believe that then you have no idea what the Kingdom is or what it will do for those who live on earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)

We are to preach "the good news of the Kingdom" (Matthew 24:14).....but first we have to know what the Kingdom is and what the good news of its coming means for the ones who have left Babylon the great.

I find this to be true in my own life. Christ is the goodness, and power, of God in my life.

I see a very good and kind heart in you RS, but I do not see someone who is open to the teachings of the Bible as much as you are devoted to the teachings of Christendom. This is of course your choice, but don't our eyes have to be wide open? There is a lot at stake.

Colossians 3:23,24. 'And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ'.

The Christian scriptures were written for, and by "the chosen ones"...."the elect".....so who are the elect and what is their role in the Kingdom? What are they chosen for? Are all Christians of the elect? How would you answer?

 

[Misty Woods]

I've followed your responses to other well meaning people, as well as my own throughout this thread. My last response to you was very clear, and yet you still choose to avoid acknowledging clear biblical scripture, by changing the subject entirely. Therefore you are showing me that you are not worthy of my time, since there are sincere people still looking for the the truth that our Christ Jesus spoke of.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Yes I agree. But the savior was sent by one who is a greater Savior. The one sent is not equal to the one who sent him if that one is described as his "servant". (Acts 3:13) That is where we diverge I believe. The relationship between Father and son is not the same as that described with the holy spirit. At no time does God say that he loves the holy spirit or that Jesus loves the holy spirit....or that the holy spirit loves anyone. If these three are equal persons, why is that, since words of affection are expressed by Christ and his Father for each other many times?
Why is the holy spirit missing from John 17:3?



I believe that you are putting your own spin on this expression. God was "with" his people Israel without being physically present. He directed them through his human representatives. Jesus came as his "Logos"...his representative....his servant, to guide people out of a corrupted religious system, taken off track by men who put their own spin on the scriptures until they became too burdensome for those lost sheep to carry. Once Jesus had showed those lost sheep that they could find good pasture under his shepherding, they followed him out of that corrupted system and into a new sheepfold. But the devil would infiltrate that too, but very craftily.



This is Christendom's teaching and it is one I reject outright. Jesus is not God in the flesh and not all who identify as Christians will go to heaven. If you believe that then you have no idea what the Kingdom is or what it will do for those who live on earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)

We are to preach "the good news of the Kingdom" (Matthew 24:14).....but first we have to know what the Kingdom is and what the good news of its coming means for the ones who have left Babylon the great.



I see a very good and kind heart in you RS, but I do not see someone who is open to the teachings of the Bible as much as you are devoted to the teachings of Christendom. This is of course your choice, but don't our eyes have to be wide open? There is a lot at stake.



The Christian scriptures were written for, and by "the chosen ones"...."the elect".....so who are the elect and what is their role in the Kingdom? What are they chosen for? Are all Christians of the elect? How would you answer?

Deeje, how can you talk about the Saviour being sent by a 'greater Saviour' when scripture tells us that there is only one Saviour? (Hosea 13:4) You cannot have a 'representative' Saviour from sin and death. Either God has come to earth to dwell amongst men, or He has not. If God has not come to earth, we have no Saviour to save us.

The kingdom of God is, at the present time, a spiritual kingdom consisting of both Jews and Gentiles made righteous through faith in Christ. The earthly kingdom is not established until Christ's return, IMO.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I've followed your responses to other well meaning people, as well as my own throughout this thread. My last response to you was very clear, and yet you still choose to avoid acknowledging clear biblical scripture, by changing the subject entirely. Therefore you are showing me that you are not worthy of my time, since there are sincere people still looking for the the truth that our Christ Jesus spoke of.

Misty, what you describe as clear biblical evidence that God was NOT in Jesus Christ redeeming the world is refuted by scripture.

2 Corinthians 5:19. 'To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation'.

This is scripture teaching us the truth. Who was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself?!

 

[Deeje]

Deeje, how can you talk about the Saviour being sent by a 'greater Saviour' when scripture tells us that there is only one Saviour? (Hosea 13:4)

Hosea 13:4...
“But I am Jehovah your God from* the land of Egypt;
You knew no God except me,
And besides me there is no savior.”

Isaiah 43:11.....
“I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

Isaiah 45:21-22...
“Make your report, present your case.
Let them consult together in unity.
Who foretold this long ago
And declared it from times past?
Is it not I, Jehovah?
There is no other God but me;
A righteous God and a Savior, there is none besides me.”

In what capacity was Jehovah a Savior to Israel? How often had he “saved” them from many situations? Israel well knew their God as a Savior......but in sending Jesus as Redeemer, he also acted as a Savior.....this time in a more spiritual capacity, by the mission of a physical “servant” who carried out his Father’s instructions to the letter.

Had God acted as a Savior in the past by sending one in physical form?
Judges 3:15...
“Then the Israelites called to Jehovah for help, so Jehovah raised up for them a savior, Eʹhud the son of Geʹra....”

You dwell on words without deeper study. You know what you know, but it is confined to your own narrow view IMO.

You cannot have a 'representative' Saviour from sin and death. Either God has come to earth to dwell amongst men, or He has not. If God has not come to earth, we have no Saviour to save us.

You can see that this statement is clearly not true. God can send a Savior who acts on his behalf. He remains the principle Savior, but it does not detract from the faithful actions of the one “sent” in carrying out his instructions. Like Ehud, Jesus had to obey his God’s instructions and carry out his very important role as redeemer. What is a redeemer?

If Jesus was God, why did he need to do his Father’s will, which we know could be different to his own will. (Matthew 26:39)

Why was Jesus called God’s “servant”? How can God be his own servant?

The kingdom of God is, at the present time, a spiritual kingdom consisting of both Jews and Gentiles made righteous through faith in Christ. The earthly kingdom is not established until Christ's return, IMO.

If you know what the Kingdom of God is, are you not under obligation from Christ to preach it in company with your brotherhood? (Matthew 10:11-15)
This commIssion was given to all of Christ’s disciples......and it wasn’t an option, it was a command. (Matthew 28:19-20) It was organised, and the disciples had one united message, not a range of personal interpretations.

So.....what is the message that we are we to preach?

If the Kingdom is to “come”, how does it do that?

Who are the “elect”, and what will they do in heaven?

If the kingdom is in heaven, what is established on earth?

How would you answer?

 

[Deeje]

If I may, not speaking for my sister, but this is you interpreting scripture with your own biases RS.

what you describe as clear biblical evidence that God was NOT in Jesus Christ redeeming the world is refuted by scripture.

We do not believe that God was “in Christ” the way you suggest.
God’s spirit directed everything Jesus did and taught. His personal communication with his Father was direct because he was sinless, there was no barrier. So his 40 days in the wilderness after his baptism was him coming to terms with who he was, and why he was sent. When the “heavens were opened” Jesus the man became Jesus “the Christ”, now anointed with God’s spirit, he was given abilities that he formerly did not have. He was given back his memory of his past life in heaven. He now spoke as Jesus, son of God, rather than Jesus, son of Joseph.

He was not God, nor did he have any special abilities before his anointing at age 30. With his baptism, he virtually died to his former human life and was raised with a new identity and mission. His fleshly family did not apparently see much of him as his siblings weren’t believers at that stage.

2 Corinthians 5:19. 'To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation'.

It was God reconciling the world to himself through his son, acting as his representative. The ministry that Jesus performed, was then passed onto his disciples to finish what he started. The sacrifice of Jesus’ life paid the debt that Adam had left for his children. Jesus actually died....if he was God, then he was immortal and could not really die. He would not have been Adam’s equivalent. Atonement means “at-one-meant”....one for one. Adam’s equivalent could not have been the immortal God.....and never needed to be.

This is scripture teaching us the truth. Who was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself?!

It’s your interpretation that in error in our opinion....you see only through your own lens......a lens I used to see through once. I thank God that I was able to take off those distorted glasses to see things more clearly.
Please at least consider these options.

 

[The Anointed]

Hosea 13:4...
“But I am Jehovah your God from* the land of Egypt;
You knew no God except me,
And besides me there is no savior.”

Isaiah 43:11.....
“I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

Isaiah 45:21-22...
“Make your report, present your case.
Let them consult together in unity.
Who foretold this long ago
And declared it from times past?
Is it not I, Jehovah?
There is no other God but me;
A righteous God and a Savior, there is none besides me.”

In what capacity was Jehovah a Savior to Israel? How often had he “saved” them from many situations? Israel well knew their God as a Savior......but in sending Jesus as Redeemer, he also acted as a Savior.....this time in a more spiritual capacity, by the mission of a physical “servant” who carried out his Father’s instructions to the letter.

Had God acted as a Savior in the past by sending one in physical form?
Judges 3:15...
“Then the Israelites called to Jehovah for help, so Jehovah raised up for them a savior, Eʹhud the son of Geʹra....”

You dwell on words without deeper study. You know what you know, but it is confined to your own narrow view IMO.



You can see that this statement is clearly not true. God can send a Savior who acts on his behalf. He remains the principle Savior, but it does not detract from the faithful actions of the one “sent” in carrying out his instructions. Like Ehud, Jesus had to obey his God’s instructions and carry out his very important role as redeemer. What is a redeemer?

If Jesus was God, why did he need to do his Father’s will, which we know could be different to his own will. (Matthew 26:39)

Why was Jesus called God’s “servant”? How can God be his own servant?



If you know what the Kingdom of God is, are you not under obligation from Christ to preach it in company with your brotherhood? (Matthew 10:11-15)
This commIssion was given to all of Christ’s disciples......and it wasn’t an option, it was a command. (Matthew 28:19-20) It was organised, and the disciples had one united message, not a range of personal interpretations.

So.....what is the message that we are we to preach?

If the Kingdom is to “come”, how does it do that?

Who are the “elect”, and what will they do in heaven?

If the kingdom is in heaven, what is established on earth?

How would you answer?

Who is the cornerstone in the bosom of Abraham, to who all the spirits of the righteous were gathered in the creation of God's new and glorious Temple, which is to replace his old tent in which he wandered the wilderness?

Who were the first fruits (Plural) to be harvested from the body of mankind the Lord of creatures

Who filled the man Jesus with his spirit, on the day he was baptised, and the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, THIS DAY I have begotten thee," or as said in Hebrews 5: 5; "You are my son 'TODAY' I have become your Father?"

When on the cross Jesus cried out "My God, my God why have you abandoned me?" as he gave up his spirit, and the graves of the saints were opened, who three days after the crucifixion entered the city and revealed themselves as the risen Anointed one.

John 20" 15; The one who Mary Magdalene, although looking at him, did not recognise who he was until he spoke her name. Luke 24: 28-31; And who Cleophas the husband of Jesus's mother Mary, and his son Simeon, who walked with one of the risen Christ to Emmaus, didn't recognise who he was until Simon saw the manner in which he broke the bread. And (John 21: 12) the seven apostles who were fishing on Lake Galilee, and later sat down with the man on the bank, who had bread and fish to share with them, and yet not one of them who had walked and talked with Jesus, dared to ask who he was, but they understood he was the Christ.

The elect and chosen of the Lord, who has placed Jesus in his throne until he has brought every knee to bow at his feet, are able to pass in and out of the door that has been opened by Jesus, through which no man of flesh can enter that spiritual dimension that co-exists within this three dimensional world.

I hope you have been enlightened Deeje?