The LORD is my shepherd

[Redemptionsong]

I find John 20:28 does Not change what Jesus said earlier at John 20:17.
Even today we hear a person exclaim in front of a reporter, " Oh, my god ! " and we know the person is Not addressing the reporter as their god.
Stephen was comforted by what he saw according to Acts of the Apostles 7:55-56
Notice the heavenly position that Jesus takes being at the right hand of God. This is also in harmony with Revelation 3:12; Revelation 3:21.
Jesus appeared before the person of his God - Hebrews 9:24
Stephen calls out (verses 59-60) to Jesus and rightly so because God gave Jesus the Resurrection Power to unlock the grave - Revelation 1:18.
Stephen dying request was that those stoning him would Not have their sin held against them, so that Jesus would also resurrect them.

I don't accept that God's inspired word would include an exclamation that held no meaning! The risen Lord is our God.

The reason that Jesus Christ is OUR God is because he dwells amongst us, and is WITHIN us. The body of Christ, the Church, is a spiritual body sealed with the Holy Spirit. If a disciple does not have the Holy Spirit then he/she is not a 'Christian'. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that a believer must be 'born again'. The whole message of salvation in the New Testament is about cleansing from sin, and this can only happen if your spirit is renewed. Only God can provide the Holy Spirit, so only God can save.

Think for a moment about the position that Christ holds NOW. The Gospels are complicated because the person of Jesus Christ is both a man, come as a suffering servant, and the Spirit of God. But what has Jesus Christ become? Look at the following passages:

Daniel 7:13,14.'I saw in the night visions, and, behold one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven [the ascension], and came to the ancient of days [God the Father], and they brought him [Jesus Christ] near before him.
And there was given him [Jesus Christ] dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him [Jesus Christ]: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.'

I've added my explanation in red, but the text is pretty clear even without my words.

Now look at corresponding passages in the New Testament that confirm the vision of Daniel.

Colossians 1:16. 'For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:' [The next verse begins 'And he is head of the body, the Church:', which proves that verse 16 is referring to Jesus Christ]

Ephesians 1:20-23. 'Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.'

Jude 1:25. 'To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.' [If God has dominion for ever then it is Jesus Christ to whom that dominion is given. How can Jesus Christ not, therefore, be our God?]

Revelation 1;5,6. 'And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.' [The Son of God is able to make us, the body of Christ, kings and priests unto God his Father because he has filled us with the Spirit of sonship. The glory and dominion belongs to Christ.]

Do you serve Jesus Christ, or a God that you don't know?

 

[Redemptionsong]

I find Jesus is Not the LORD of Psalms 110.
However Jesus is the Lord, but Not the LORD.
There are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stand for LORD God ( Tetragrammaton YHWH)
The Tetragrammaton does Not apply to Lord Jesus ( Lord in some lower-case letters )

Jesus is not the LORD; he's the Lord. That's because the Lord is both man and God. The LORD is not man.

David's Lord is Jesus Christ. And since David serves the Lord, we should do the same. Jesus Christ is become OUR Lord and God.

 

[The Anointed]

Ya think...? Don't hold your breath now, will ya....?

I find no evidence for an immortal soul in any part of scripture.....in fact, the two words do not exist side by side in any Bible verse.

OH! that demon that pretended to be Samuel , and even deceived the prophets into believing it was not Samuel, but a demon that spoke to Saul. Ahh, but not the authorities of the JW's who prophesied the battle of Armageddon was to occur in 1975. Oh , for goodness sake, stop laughing son, stop laughing.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Let me say first of all that I really appreciate your sincerity and understand your beliefs, since I once shared many of them myself.

I often wonder about ‘non-denominational’ churches in view of Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 1:10. Here in Australia, mainstream churches are drying up as we as a nation become more and more secular and materialistic.....so some decades ago three of those churches who were struggling to stay afloat, merged for their mutual benefit.They called themselves "The Uniting Church" because there is no way that their individual doctrines could agree, so because they will never be "United", there is a suggestion in the title that they are accepting of each others beliefs and difference which are put aside for the benefit of the church's survival. Mostly I guess because they all accept the core doctrines inherited from the RCC.



I think this comes down to who God is, and whether there was ever a need for God himself to become a human in order to save mankind. To me that is akin to a dinosaur wanting to live in the body of a bacteria in order to save the bacteria. That is the kind of divide I see between God and humans.



Indeed, the spirit is often spoken of as divided between large groups of people.

e.g. Numbers 11:25 recounts the situation with Moses feeling overwhelmed at the responsibility given to him for the welfare of his vast nation.....and his father-in-law recommending that he get some assistance.
"Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the Spirit that was on him [Moses] and put it on the seventy elders. And as soon as the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied. But they did not continue doing it." (ESV)

How do you take "some" of a person off one man and divide it up between 70 others?

And of course there is Pentecost when the holy spirit "filled' 120 of Jesus' disciples gathered in an upper room, enabling them to speak in foreign languages to preach to visitors in the city from foreign lands.

When Stephen was about to die at the hands of the infuriated Jews, because he had castigated them with a stinging truth, he was granted a vision....

Acts 7:51-57....
51 “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, 53 you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”
54 Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. 55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him." (ESV)

You notice that Stephen was filled with holy spirit when he was granted this vision.....whom did he see? He saw Jesus at the right hand of God. Was the holy spirit absent from the heavenly scene because it was busy 'filling' Stephen? If it can be in several places or people at once, why was it not seen in heaven with the rest of the trinity?

In fact when Jesus and his Father are spoken about together, the holy spirit rarely rates a mention as a trio...no more is this well demonstrated than Jesus own words to his Father in John 17:3...
"And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." Again, there is "the only true God" but it isn't Jesus because he adds AND Jesus Christ whom you have sent". Where is the third equally important component of the trinity? Why is eternal life NOT based on a knowledge of "him"?



I believe that Jesus was 100% human but not the product of normal human reproduction. To be viewed as "Jewish" one had to be born of a Jewish mother, which Jesus was. But in order not to carry the defective (sinful) genes of Adam, he couldn't have a human father. To be born sinless, his life in heaven was transferred to the womb of this specially chosen, unmarried virgin. Her virginity was essential so that Jesus' credentials would be as the "son of God" rather than a sinful son of Adam. This would prove that he could pay the "ransom" which was a set "price". You see, the ransom demanded something that no other human could furnish.....Jesus had to be Adam's equivalent because God's law demanded that a debt be paid in full. A "redeemer" had to have the full price, so a "life for a life" meant a sinless life had to be offered for the sinless life that Adam lost for his children, sold into this 'slavery' (to sin and death) through no fault on their part. (Roman 5:12)

The mechanics of the ransom tell us why Jesus cannot be God. It would be like paying a million quadriillion dollars ransom for something worth only a few thousand dollars by comparison.

Since you have an entirely different understanding of the words "soul" and "spirit" as they are used in the Bible, that will lead us to another rabbit hole.



I see you putting your own qualifiers on your statements as if they were absolute truth. I do not see them that way. What does it mean when you say..."a coming down of God's Spirit without division or limitation. For this to be true, Jesus must have fulfilled all the 'ministries' of the Holy Spirit within the church"....that statement means very little to me.....like church jargon.

The coming down of God's spirit upon his son along with his declaration of approval says to me that when Jesus presented himself to begin his role as Messiah, God equipped him for that role by giving him all that was necessary through the operation of holy spirit to carry it out. His baptism in water was a symbolic death and resurrection, signifying that Jesus the man, now 'died' and was 'raised' to become Jesus the Christ (anointed one). As God's anointed one he did carry out various roles whilst remaining the son of God. But he was also referred to as "God's servant". (Acts 3:13) A servant is not equal to his Master, but obediently carries out his Masters instructions. Jesus did exactly that. (John 5:19)



It was the High Priest's job to enter the Most Holy once a year with the blood of the prescribed sacrifice. But God spoke with Moses (most than likely through his Logos) in a luminous cloud that appeared above the Ark of the Testimony.

Numbers 7:89...
" And when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with the Lord, he heard the voice speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim; and it spoke to him."

Exodus 25:22....God said to Moses...."There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel."



Again, we have a very different view as to who make up the "body of Christ".
I agree that Jesus is the head, no question....but who are the body and what is their function?
Since these alone go to heaven, what do they do there according to your understanding?

To address your statement above, I believe that we first need to answer these questions.....

Well, l'm not finding it easy to know where to begin! For sure, your question about the body of Christ is fundamentally important.

To my understanding, Christ came at his first advent to offer salvation from sin. His sacrifice was acceptable, and the resulting resurrection and ascension placed Christ in a position of dominion over us. Through faith in Jesus Christ we can receive the promise of old, the Holy Spirit. This Spirit comes from the Father, through the Son, to all who repent and believe in Jesus Christ as their risen Saviour. Without baptism in the Spirit, a believer is not born again.

IMO, the Holy Spirit is one Spirit but it functions differently in believers, in recognition of differences in faith and talent.

Since there is always one Spirit, those who are filled with the Spirit find themselves united with others born of the same Spirit. This is what makes the Church one spiritual body, a living temple in Christ.

Where do you stand on these issues?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Let me say first of all that I really appreciate your sincerity and understand your beliefs, since I once shared many of them myself.

I often wonder about ‘non-denominational’ churches in view of Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 1:10. Here in Australia, mainstream churches are drying up as we as a nation become more and more secular and materialistic.....so some decades ago three of those churches who were struggling to stay afloat, merged for their mutual benefit.They called themselves "The Uniting Church" because there is no way that their individual doctrines could agree, so because they will never be "United", there is a suggestion in the title that they are accepting of each others beliefs and difference which are put aside for the benefit of the church's survival. Mostly I guess because they all accept the core doctrines inherited from the RCC.



I think this comes down to who God is, and whether there was ever a need for God himself to become a human in order to save mankind. To me that is akin to a dinosaur wanting to live in the body of a bacteria in order to save the bacteria. That is the kind of divide I see between God and humans.



Indeed, the spirit is often spoken of as divided between large groups of people.

e.g. Numbers 11:25 recounts the situation with Moses feeling overwhelmed at the responsibility given to him for the welfare of his vast nation.....and his father-in-law recommending that he get some assistance.
"Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the Spirit that was on him [Moses] and put it on the seventy elders. And as soon as the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied. But they did not continue doing it." (ESV)

How do you take "some" of a person off one man and divide it up between 70 others?

And of course there is Pentecost when the holy spirit "filled' 120 of Jesus' disciples gathered in an upper room, enabling them to speak in foreign languages to preach to visitors in the city from foreign lands.

When Stephen was about to die at the hands of the infuriated Jews, because he had castigated them with a stinging truth, he was granted a vision....

Acts 7:51-57....
51 “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, 53 you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”
54 Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. 55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him." (ESV)

You notice that Stephen was filled with holy spirit when he was granted this vision.....whom did he see? He saw Jesus at the right hand of God. Was the holy spirit absent from the heavenly scene because it was busy 'filling' Stephen? If it can be in several places or people at once, why was it not seen in heaven with the rest of the trinity?

In fact when Jesus and his Father are spoken about together, the holy spirit rarely rates a mention as a trio...no more is this well demonstrated than Jesus own words to his Father in John 17:3...
"And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." Again, there is "the only true God" but it isn't Jesus because he adds AND Jesus Christ whom you have sent". Where is the third equally important component of the trinity? Why is eternal life NOT based on a knowledge of "him"?



I believe that Jesus was 100% human but not the product of normal human reproduction. To be viewed as "Jewish" one had to be born of a Jewish mother, which Jesus was. But in order not to carry the defective (sinful) genes of Adam, he couldn't have a human father. To be born sinless, his life in heaven was transferred to the womb of this specially chosen, unmarried virgin. Her virginity was essential so that Jesus' credentials would be as the "son of God" rather than a sinful son of Adam. This would prove that he could pay the "ransom" which was a set "price". You see, the ransom demanded something that no other human could furnish.....Jesus had to be Adam's equivalent because God's law demanded that a debt be paid in full. A "redeemer" had to have the full price, so a "life for a life" meant a sinless life had to be offered for the sinless life that Adam lost for his children, sold into this 'slavery' (to sin and death) through no fault on their part. (Roman 5:12)

The mechanics of the ransom tell us why Jesus cannot be God. It would be like paying a million quadriillion dollars ransom for something worth only a few thousand dollars by comparison.

Since you have an entirely different understanding of the words "soul" and "spirit" as they are used in the Bible, that will lead us to another rabbit hole.



I see you putting your own qualifiers on your statements as if they were absolute truth. I do not see them that way. What does it mean when you say..."a coming down of God's Spirit without division or limitation. For this to be true, Jesus must have fulfilled all the 'ministries' of the Holy Spirit within the church"....that statement means very little to me.....like church jargon.

The coming down of God's spirit upon his son along with his declaration of approval says to me that when Jesus presented himself to begin his role as Messiah, God equipped him for that role by giving him all that was necessary through the operation of holy spirit to carry it out. His baptism in water was a symbolic death and resurrection, signifying that Jesus the man, now 'died' and was 'raised' to become Jesus the Christ (anointed one). As God's anointed one he did carry out various roles whilst remaining the son of God. But he was also referred to as "God's servant". (Acts 3:13) A servant is not equal to his Master, but obediently carries out his Masters instructions. Jesus did exactly that. (John 5:19)



It was the High Priest's job to enter the Most Holy once a year with the blood of the prescribed sacrifice. But God spoke with Moses (most than likely through his Logos) in a luminous cloud that appeared above the Ark of the Testimony.

Numbers 7:89...
" And when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with the Lord, he heard the voice speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim; and it spoke to him."

Exodus 25:22....God said to Moses...."There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel."



Again, we have a very different view as to who make up the "body of Christ".
I agree that Jesus is the head, no question....but who are the body and what is their function?
Since these alone go to heaven, what do they do there according to your understanding?

To address your statement above, I believe that we first need to answer these questions.....

Despite the time zone differences, it's good to know that l can have these open conversations with people living happily on the other side of the globe! I'm in England.

Who knows, the day may come when such freedoms will be taken from us!

 

[Deeje]

Well, l'm not finding it easy to know where to begin! For sure, your question about the body of Christ is fundamentally important.

But more fundamentally important to us is the true nature of God.
If he is a triune being with three different presentations, then why is there no clear statement about that from either God or his Christ?

Why did the Jews have no knowledge of these three ‘persons’ whom Christendom claims are all “God”?
All I see are ambiguous verses where the trinity idea is suggested or inserted, but no clear statement from either Jesus or Jehovah that they are one and the same "Almighty God". Jesus as much as says specifically that they are two entirely separate beings.....one who was in heaven and the other who was sent by him for a temporary mission on earth. (John 17:3)

To my understanding, Christ came at his first advent to offer salvation from sin. His sacrifice was acceptable, and the resulting resurrection and ascension placed Christ in a position of dominion over us.

Firstly why do you view Jesus' "advent" as more significant than his previous spiritual existence in heaven with the Father? His history is much longer than 33 short earth years....his existence stretches back eons of unknown time before anything else existed, which explains his close relationship with his Father....who was his 'begetter'.

As the "Logos", the pre-human Jesus was God's "only begotten son" long before there were any other "sons of God"....including Adam. (Luke 3:38) He was the very beginning of God's creations. (Revelation 3:14) He was "in the beginning" "with the God" according to John 1:1, and it is said in verse 14 that the "Word became flesh"...not that God became flesh. The Greek word "theos" does not only apply to Jehovah...it applies to any who are viewed as divine or with God-given authority, which Jesus certainly was as the "son of God", which is all he ever claimed to be.

Through faith in Jesus Christ we can receive the promise of old, the Holy Spirit. This Spirit comes from the Father, through the Son, to all who repent and believe in Jesus Christ as their risen Saviour. Without baptism in the Spirit, a believer is not born again.

Yes, and this comes back to what that means.....what does it mean to you to be "born again"?
What is this 'new birth' and where does that place those who have been thus anointed? Where do they go and what do they do? What is the purpose of being "born again"?

IMO, the Holy Spirit is one Spirit but it functions differently in believers, in recognition of differences in faith and talent.

So now you refer to the spirit as "it" rather than "he"? What does that indicate to you?

Since there is always one Spirit, those who are filled with the Spirit find themselves united with others born of the same Spirit. This is what makes the Church one spiritual body, a living temple in Christ.

This is the same kind of 'churchy' jargon that made me uncomfortable in Christendom. I want to know the truth about God and about his Christ and the operation of God's spirit in terms that I can get my own head around.....plain speak, not church speak, if you catch my drift. I cannot explain anything to someone else about God unless it is clear in my own mind. I have never been any different, so I understand God's spirit as emanating from him to empower others to do what cannot naturally be accomplished. Jesus for example, until his baptism was just Jesus the carpenter's son. He had no miraculous powers or anything about him to suggest that he was God.....but as a perfect human specimen, he was highly intelligent and physically perfect. He would never have become afflicted with any disease....nor would he have experienced aging or death because humans were designed to live forever in their perfect mortal flesh. The only cause of death in the garden of Eden was disobedience. (Genesis 3:22-24)

Where do you stand on these issues?

I see God as the Supreme Sovereign of all that exists....as "the Most High over all creation" he has no equal. (Psalm 83:18) He has always existed and will always exist because he is a spirit with unlimited dynamic energy.

There came a time in his existence when he decided to share life with other beings....not that he was lonely or lacking in anything, because he is complete in himself and lacks nothing. So he produced a "son".....his "firstborn" and "only begotten" whom we can assume received the most amazing education from his all wise Father in the realm where they resided together.

Again at some point in their history, a decision was made to bring about other spiritual creation, i.e. other intelligent spirit sons who would serve the interests of their Creator in the spirit realm, under the command of this 'firstborn' son......we have no real concept of what or where that realm is.....we just know that material creatures cannot live there.

Can you tell me where God intended for his human creation to live, and why any of them needed to go to heaven? Can you tell me why God put us here on earth, and why we made such a mess of things? What will happen in the future according to your beliefs? What is there for your 'brethren' to look forward to?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

These are thought-provoking questions, @Deeje !

Enquiring minds should want to know.

I especially liked how you were quick to notice the HS going from “he” to “it”! “It” is never used in reference to a person.

 

[Redemptionsong]

These are thought-provoking questions, @Deeje !

Enquiring minds should want to know.

I especially liked how you were quick to notice the HS going from “he” to “it”! “It” is never used in reference to a person.

I can answer that question straight away! I have addressed the Holy Spirit as 'it' because in a post written a short time previously l agreed that Holy Spirit (Father, Word, and Holy Spirit) has no gender.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I can answer that question straight away! I have addressed the Holy Spirit as 'it' because in a post written a short time previously l agreed that Holy Spirit (Father, Word, and Holy Spirit) has no gender.

But you don’t say “it” for God, do you? Neither when referring to the Father or the Word, do you?

 

[Redemptionsong]

But you don’t say “it” for God, do you? Neither when referring to the Father or the Word, do you?

No, you're correct. I should be consistent with the translation that l generally quote from, and the translators use 'He'. In future, l'll refer to the Comforter as 'He'!

 

[The Anointed]

I can answer that question straight away! I have addressed the Holy Spirit as 'it' because in a post written a short time previously l agreed that Holy Spirit (Father, Word, and Holy Spirit) has no gender.

Where it it written (Father, Word, and Holy Spirit?)

You begin with a false belief and then compound it with that which is not recorded anywhere.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No, you're correct. I should be consistent with the translation that l generally quote from, and the translators use 'He'. In future, l'll refer to the Comforter as 'He'!

Why use the pronoun “he,” when Spirit is neuter? Sounds like the translators are trying to make it into a person, when it’s not. (No one ever uses neuter pronouns when referring to a person.)

Appreciate your amiable demeanor.
Take care, my cousin.

 

[Redemptionsong]

But more fundamentally important to us is the true nature of God.
If he is a triune being with three different presentations, then why is there no clear statement about that from either God or his Christ?

Why did the Jews have no knowledge of these three ‘persons’ whom Christendom claims are all “God”?
All I see are ambiguous verses where the trinity idea is suggested or inserted, but no clear statement from either Jesus or Jehovah that they are one and the same "Almighty God". Jesus as much as says specifically that they are two entirely separate beings.....one who was in heaven and the other who was sent by him for a temporary mission on earth. (John 17:3)



Firstly why do you view Jesus' "advent" as more significant than his previous spiritual existence in heaven with the Father? His history is much longer than 33 short earth years....his existence stretches back eons of unknown time before anything else existed, which explains his close relationship with his Father....who was his 'begetter'.

As the "Logos", the pre-human Jesus was God's "only begotten son" long before there were any other "sons of God"....including Adam. (Luke 3:38) He was the very beginning of God's creations. (Revelation 3:14) He was "in the beginning" "with the God" according to John 1:1, and it is said in verse 14 that the "Word became flesh"...not that God became flesh. The Greek word "theos" does not only apply to Jehovah...it applies to any who are viewed as divine or with God-given authority, which Jesus certainly was as the "son of God", which is all he ever claimed to be.



Yes, and this comes back to what that means.....what does it mean to you to be "born again"?
What is this 'new birth' and where does that place those who have been thus anointed? Where do they go and what do they do? What is the purpose of being "born again"?


So now you refer to the spirit as "it" rather than "he"? What does that indicate to you?



This is the same kind of 'churchy' jargon that made me uncomfortable in Christendom. I want to know the truth about God and about his Christ and the operation of God's spirit in terms that I can get my own head around.....plain speak, not church speak, if you catch my drift. I cannot explain anything to someone else about God unless it is clear in my own mind. I have never been any different, so I understand God's spirit as emanating from him to empower others to do what cannot naturally be accomplished. Jesus for example, until his baptism was just Jesus the carpenter's son. He had no miraculous powers or anything about him to suggest that he was God.....but as a perfect human specimen, he was highly intelligent and physically perfect. He would never have become afflicted with any disease....nor would he have experienced aging or death because humans were designed to live forever in their perfect mortal flesh. The only cause of death in the garden of Eden was disobedience. (Genesis 3:22-24)



I see God as the Supreme Sovereign of all that exists....as "the Most High over all creation" he has no equal. (Psalm 83:18) He has always existed and will always exist because he is a spirit with unlimited dynamic energy.

There came a time in his existence when he decided to share life with other beings....not that he was lonely or lacking in anything, because he is complete in himself and lacks nothing. So he produced a "son".....his "firstborn" and "only begotten" whom we can assume received the most amazing education from his all wise Father in the realm where they resided together.

Again at some point in their history, a decision was made to bring about other spiritual creation, i.e. other intelligent spirit sons who would serve the interests of their Creator in the spirit realm, under the command of this 'firstborn' son......we have no real concept of what or where that realm is.....we just know that material creatures cannot live there.

Can you tell me where God intended for his human creation to live, and why any of them needed to go to heaven? Can you tell me why God put us here on earth, and why we made such a mess of things? What will happen in the future according to your beliefs? What is there for your 'brethren' to look forward to?

Our knowledge of God is revealed to us by God. So, we all rely on revelation.

Philisophy and human reasoning, in the absence of revelation, are poor substitutes for God's revelation of Himself.

I believe that Jesus Christ reveals God to man. He does so by dwelling amongst us, and then by dwelling within us.

In your version of the revelation of God, we know very little about God. He never dwells within us as a Comforter, and he never lived amongst us as the Son of God (in Spirit).

The question l ask, in all sincerity, is, Do you know your God?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Where it it written (Father, Word, and Holy Spirit?)

You begin with a false belief and then compound it with that which is not recorded anywhere.

Try 1 John 5:7.

 

[The Anointed]

Try 1 John 5:7.

1John 5; 7; There are three witnesses, verse 8; The spirit, the water , and the blood.

So what has that to do with with your erroneous addition to God's word, (The father, the Word and the Holy Spirit?) which is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Redemptionsong]

In order to condense my argument that God HAS come to earth to dwell amongst men, l'm using a few more syllogisms.

The qualifier is that one accepts scripture as inspired.

God is Holy Spirit [John 4:24]
God is one [Deut. 6:4]
The Holy Spirit is one Spirit [Ephesians 4:6]

Only the Word proceeds from God [John 1:3; Col.1:16]]
Christ proceeds from God [John 16:28]
Hence, Christ is the Word [Rev. 19:13]

The Comforter (Holy Spirit) proceeds from one Father and God [John 15:26]
The Comforter (Holy Spirit) proceeds from Christ [John 16:7]
Hence, Christ (the Word) is part of the one God, as is the Comforter (the Word in us) [1 John 5:7].

 

[Redemptionsong]

1John 5; 7; There are three witnesses, verse 8; The spirit, the water , and the blood.

So what has that to do with with your erroneous addition to God's word, (The father, the Word and the Holy Spirit?) which is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures.

Your witnesses are in earth, mine are in heaven!

 

[The Anointed]

Your witnesses are in earth, mine are in heaven!

But flesh and blood cannot enter there, so how in the hell did you get there to speak with them?

 

[Thief]

Where does it say in the scriptures that humans 'are' spirits with a soul and living in a body?

Genesis

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My starting point in this thread is a syllogism. Feel free to post your thoughts on its logic and validity.

Here we go:

The LORD (YHWH) is my shepherd [Psalm 23:1]
Jesus Christ is my shepherd [John 10:14]
Therefore, Jesus Christ is the LORD [John 20:28]

Apple is a fruit.
Banana is a fruit.
Therefore, banana is an apple.

Yep - makes sense to me.