The LDS "Articles of Faith"

[Katzpur]

Hey Katzpur, since you couldn't stay away from the Thread, could you please answer the two questions below?

Dear Katzpur,
I am asking you within 1 Peter 3:15,

• Is the above information correct for Salvation according to official teaching of “The Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints”?
• What was accomplished by Jesus Christ in His perfect obedience to the Father's will, including His sacrificial death on the cross? I will check for your answers on Friday afternoon. This question is the heart of Point 3.

Your friend only (lol),
BT

I've already answered the first question. When you stop posting links to anti-Mormon websites, I'll consider going on to the second one.

 

[bible truth]

I've already answered the first question. When you stop posting links to anti-Mormon websites, I'll consider going on to the second one.

Hey Katzpur,

Did you block my ability to post links earlier today? I have never posted an anti-Mormon website. Please support your statement by referring to a particular post. The only Mormon information website that I linked to was approved by LDS member Comprehend. That particular website is neutral; it always linked back to lds.org. I think you are unable to answer the second question. Please let the readers decide by checking out the website for themselves to judge your statement. - BT

http://www.religionfacts.com/index.html

 

[*Paul*]

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

My problem with this is the missing word – ONE. IF it said we believe in one God the eternal Father, and His Son and in the Holy Ghost then I would have no objection, but it doesn’t and it is telling of the LDS belief, for they believe in three Gods, The Father, His Son and the Holy Ghost one only in unity and purpose. Or as Joseph Smith puts it:If Abraham reasoned thus—If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it.
Meeting in the Grove, east of the Temple, June 16, 1844.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

On the day of judgement this will indeed be the case:
Rv 20v13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
However I believe that here and now the whole creation is under punishment for Adams sin, that is why we die at all, that is why infants can die even though they have no sin of their own. For if they were entirely free from sin they could not die as death came by sin.
Rom 5v17-18: For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Well are we saved by the atonement or by our obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel? It seems as though by obeying these ordinances you then become beneficiaries of the atonement. So neither obeying these alone would earn you salvation but at the same time through your obedience is how this gift is received. It seems that these ordinances are listed in the next article unless I am mistaken, which are faith and repentance and baptism and having hands laid on you to receive the Holy Ghost by someone.
How does the bible say that we receive the atonement? Romans five seems to make it clear:
Rom 5v1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Justified by faith, if more is needed then now is a good time for Paul to bring it up to his roman audience. Our justification apparently gives us peace with God through Jesus, to have peace with God presumably one would expect the thing (our iniquity) that separates you to have been removed:
Isa 59v2: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Next we have access to this Grace (our justification and peace with God) through Jesus by faith:
Rom 5v2: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Jesus died for us when we had no hope or strength to save ourselves, the glory goes to Him alone that it may be by grace through faith but according to LDS methodology Jesus died for us and to receive the merits of this atonement we must find the strength to obey their ordinances then we can receive (which amounts to earning) this grace
Rom 5v6: For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5v8: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
The merits of His blood alone are fully sufficient for our justification:
Rom 5v9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
We are reconciled to God whilst still His enemies By His grace though faith not after we have met all the LDS listed conditions:
Rom 5v10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[*Paul*]

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

Called by prophecy? And the laying on of hands? I cannot find that as an essential in the bible. I can think of one example and it is not given as a general rule for all the faithful:
1Tm 4v14: Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
And who said that it has to be someone in authority to administer ordinances? Who gave us that rule? I can’t think of one in the bible or even coming close for that matter. Our true baptism is done by the Holy Ghost:
1Cor 12v13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

AN apostle would have a lot of proving to do:

Who is an apostle?​

1Cor 9v1: Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

2Cor 12v12: Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds

Clearly two of the proofs of Paul’s authority as an apostle are that he has seen the Lord and that God worked through him signs and wonders and mighty deeds it was to these to signs that Paul appealed to and the fact that He had planted their churches and brought them to Christ.

This is the person that is in my mind when the bible says apostle.

Eph 4v11-14: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

He gave some (to be) apostles, I don’t disagree with that, as I said before I still learn from the apostles when I read the bible and still use their teachings for my perfecting. Some prophets, believe we have prophets today in the church not that they are foretellers of the future but that they have a message from God in their ministry specifically relevant for the day we live in, though these people do not call themselves prophets because they don’t think highly of themselves which is correct, we still have evangelists, Ray Comfort & Jacob Prasch are two mainstream ones that come to my mind though there are thousands of unknown ones doing a great work for the Lord abroad, pastors and teaches being two distinct offices in my opinion though many pastors are teachers too.
He gave these for our perfecting, that is that by these ministries we may become more and more Christ like in our actions and pure in our doctrine. The work of the ministry, these are / were labourers for Jesus who do it all for the edifying or building up and strengthening of the body of Christ.
This is to be until (v13) we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
When will this be? The fact that it involves all of us (saved) and the fact that we will be perfect in our knowledge of the Son of God must mean it is until this happens:
1Jn 3v2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is
Phil 3v21: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1Cor 13v12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

This is the blessed hope of the church, for which we cry out, Come Lord Jesus, the rapture of the Church, the marriage of the Lamb to His bride. We shall then be made perfect, we shall then have perfect unity as there will be no tares or wolves in sheep’s clothing amongst us, and any misunderstandings will be cleared up, our fleshly nature will be swallowed up which is generally the cause of our misunderstandings, we shall be perfected, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

Now what of modern day apostles, have they seen Christ? Do they work verifiable miracles like the true apostles? Those who claim to have seen Christ, (and there are some within evangelicalism) ought to be examples of holiness, self sacrifice and doctrinal purity but these things are always lacking, instead they make constant appeals for money, live deliciously at the expense of the naïve and often vulnerable people they fleece through their TV screens, they are no apostles but they are ministers of Satan, who make a merchandise out of their wresting of scripture. Now if there were to be a modern day apostle, He cannot preach or teach a gospel different to that of Paul (let him be anathema) and cannot overturn the foundations that have already been laid by the first apostles, else as any construction worker will tell you (or child) he would bring the whole building down. So any one claiming to be an apostle, needs to work mighty signs and wonders and have seen Christ, live lives of holiness and their doctrine must stand up to the scrutiny of the teachings of the apostles and prophets whose writings we know are inspired.

Rv 2v2: I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

God promised to preserve His Word and I will not argue with Him, I cannot believe that God left the church without His full counsel for the millennia and a half until Joseph Smith came. I am perfectly confident that the 50 or so King James translators did an excellent job and were combined plenty more able than Joseph Smith was not to mention the fact that they checked each others works for errors and recommendations some of whom were extremely fluent in the required languages.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all the He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

I am unaware as to what is meant by this one.

 

[*Paul*]

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

The New Jerusalem is a part of the new creation the old (including America) having passed away:
Rv 21v1-2: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping the Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I agree with this so far as it does not contradict the great commission.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Amen to that.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

No problem with that either.

Joseph Smith on God the exalted man:

Joseph Smith's King Follet Sermon
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 302-317)​

I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.
God himself. was Once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.
In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

A quick exhortation from Charles Haddon Spurgeon, please read:

“Knowing, in some humble measure, at least, the value of religion, let me also bring it before your attention. If you give yourself time to think, you will soon remember that you must die; and if you meditate one more moment, you will recollect that you have a soul, and that soul will never die, but will live for ever; and if you die in your present state, it must live in endless torment.
“You are an accountable being; God, who made you, demands perfect obedience. But you must own that you have sinned; say not, ‘I am not a great sinner,’ for one sin only would be sufficient to sink your soul for ever in the pit of perdition. The sentence of death stands against you, and mercy alone stays its execution. Seeing now that you are in such danger, how do you think to escape? Surely you will not be content to die as you are, for you will one day find it no light matter to endure the hot displeasure of an angry God. Do you imagine that, if you live better for the future, God will forgive your past offences? That is a mistake; see if you can find it in the Bible.
“Perhaps you intend to think about religion after you have enjoyed sin a little longer; or possibly you think that you are too young to die. But who knows whether that future time will be afforded, and who said that you can turn to Christ just when you please? Your heart is deceitful above all things, and your natural depravity so great that you will not turn to God. Trust not, then, to resolutions made in your own strength, they are but wind; nor I to yourself, who are but a broken reed; nor to your own heart, or you are a fool. There is no way of salvation but Christ; you cannot save yourself having no power even to think one good thought; neither can your parents’ love and prayers save you; none but Jesus can, He is the Saviour of the helpless, and I tell you that He died for all such as feel their vileness and come to Him for cleansing.
“You do not deserve salvation; well, there is not a jot of merit on the sinner’s part mentioned in the covenant. You have nothing; you are nothing; but Christ is all, and He must be everything to you, or you will never be saved. None reach Heaven but by free-grace, and through free-grace alone. Even a faint desire after any good thing came from God, from whom you must get more, for He giveth liberally, and no poor sinner, begging at His door, was ever yet sent empty away.
“Look the blessedness of real religion, no one is truly happy but a child of God. The believer is safe, for God has promised to preserve him; and if once you have the pearl of great price, it cannot be taken from you. The way to Heaven is faith, ‘looking unto Jesus;’ this faith is the gift of God, and none but those who have it know its value. “Oh, may you possess it!” is the earnest prayer of −
Yours faithfully,
Charles H. Spurgeon

 

[Katzpur]

Did you block my ability to post links earlier today?

I didn't block your ability to do anything nor do I have that authority.

I have never posted an anti-Mormon website. Please support your statement by referring to a particular post. Slander is a sin and an ungodly way to debate. The only Mormon information website that I linked to was approved by LDS member Comprehend. That particular website is neutral; it always linked back to lds.org.

Your post gave a link to Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about Salvation - Leadership U. The homepage of that site begins with the following statement:

'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.

I think you are unable to answer the second question.

I'm quite capable of answering any question you might ask me, BT. When you remove your anti-Mormon link, I will do so.

Please let the readers decide by checking out the website for themselves to judge your statement.

Sorry, that's not how it works on RF. You don't post links to websites that denegrade any religion, regardless of what your own personal opinions of that religion may be. If people want to judge a website for themselves, they can do so without your providing a link. Please remove it.

 

[Aqualung]

I didn't block your ability to do anything nor do I have that authority.

'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.

And, by the way, every one of those points is false. We don't deny any of those things, and in fact, we often get rediculed by all sorts of denominations for believing them.

 

[bible truth]

I didn't block your ability to do anything nor do I have that authority.

Your post gave a link to Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about Salvation - Leadership U. The homepage of that site begins with the following statement:

'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.

I'm quite capable of answering any question you might ask me, BT. When you remove your anti-Mormon link, I will do so.

Sorry, that's not how it works on RF. You don't post links to websites that denegrade any religion, regardless of what your own personal opinions of that religion may be. If people want to judge a website for themselves, they can do so without your providing a link. Please remove it.

Hey Katzpur!
I don't remember posting anything like that. Please refresh my memory by directing all of us to that particular post. - BT

 

[Katzpur]

Paul, thanks for joining in. Since we are taking these one at a time, I'm not going to take the time to comment on all of them right now. For some reason, Bible Truth declined my request that we start with the first Article of Faith. He wanted to skip immediately to the second one. But since you commented on it, I will as well.

My problem with this is the missing word – ONE. IF it said we believe in one God the eternal Father, and His Son and in the Holy Ghost then I would have no objection, but it doesn’t and it is telling of the LDS belief, for they believe in three Gods, The Father, His Son and the Holy Ghost one only in unity and purpose.

Only one in unity and purpose? What kind of unity could possibly be more important than a unity of purpose? The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are unitied in a spiritual sense to such a degree that we as human beings cannot possibly begin to understand it. It's a unity so perfect, so total, so absolute that they think, feel and act as "one God" and therefore can and should be considered "one God" in every way that matters.

I personally cannot imagine how anyone could read the Bible with an open mind and come away with the notion that the Father is really just a different "manifestation" of the Son and that the Holy Ghost is just another way of describing the Father. Fathers are not their own sons.

Find one example for me in which the Bible describes their unity as being a unity of substance. Tell me how God could be a corporeal being here on Earth and a non-corporeal being in Heaven at the same time. And don't just tell me that with God, all things are possible. If you insist on doing do, I'm going to have to ask you if He can create a rock so big that He can't lift it -- and we both know what a stupid question that is.


With regards to the 2nd Article of Faith:

On the day of judgement this will indeed be the case:

Rv 20v13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
However I believe that here and now the whole creation is under punishment for Adams sin, that is why we die at all, that is why infants can die even though they have no sin of their own. For if they were entirely free from sin they could not die as death came by sin.
Rom 5v17-18: For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

You're talking about two kinds of death here. One is a physical death and the other is a spiritual death. I hope you won't mind if I direct you to my post #2 of http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50944.

 

[Katzpur]

Hey Katzpur!
I don't remember posting anything like that. Please refresh my memory by directing all of us to that particular post. - BT

For the third time, you posted the link. Click on it for crying out loud! I didn't just pull it out of thin air.

 

[bible truth]

Hey Katzpur,

If you want to play this game, you need to remove the LDS.ORG links because the official teaching of "The Church Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" teaches of the great apostasy of the historical Christian Church. !!!!! Which forum administrator can determine what links cannot be used?

 

[Katzpur]

Hey Katzpur,

If you want to play this game, you need to remove the LDS.ORG links because the official teaching of "The Church Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" teaches of the great apostasy of the historical Christian Church. !!!!! Which forum administrator can determine what links cannot be used?

You are clearly missing something, BT. It's one thing to state one's own beliefs. It's quite another to misrepresent the beliefs held by other individuals. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does believe that the apostasy prophesied by Paul did, in fact, take place. We do not deny that. The website for which you provided a link claims we as Latter-day Saints deny (1) the deity of Christ, (2) salvation by grace and (3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. All of those statements are false. That is the reason why we can legitimately post a link to our Church's official website and why you cannot legitimately post a link that flat out lie about what we believe and teach. If your link had been to a website which attempted to provide evidence that the Church Christ established exists has never ceased to exist and is identical today with what it was anciently, I would not have objected. I'm surprised that this is so confusing to you.

 

[DeepShadow]

Dear LDS friends including DS,

Thank you for your full and complete responses. I want to take the time to study DS's last several Threads before I summarize Point 2 in the light of Scripture. [/quote]

Pity that "study" didn't include "respond." Why are you ignoring my posts, BT?

Also, how do you figure that Katzpur's creation of this thread gives you any kind of authority over the flow of discussion? The only authority here should be the Bible, and when you infer things, you go beyond that authority.

I can catalogue the inferences you are making regarding point three as easily as I have point two, and until you address these inferences, you fail to meet your own burden of proof. Ignore it all you want, but the audience here can read my posts and see that you are not standing on strictly Biblical ground.

 

[Booko]

Did you block my ability to post links earlier today?

*** MOD POST ***

Just a quick note for everyone who might want to know:

Mods do not have the ability to block anyone from posting links.

 

[DeepShadow]

[/color][/size][/font][/color]*** MOD POST ***

Just a quick note for everyone who might want to know:

Mods do not have the ability to block anyone from posting links.

Thanks. Could you also clarify whether they can grant discretionary authority to direct a debate to someone?

 

[Bishka]

Just to lighten the mood:

How do amoebas keep in touch?

With cell phones.

 

[Comprehend]

Hey Comprehend, I took you off my ignore list. Could you please answer the two questions below?

Dear Comprehend,
I am asking you within 1 Peter 3:15,

• Is the above information correct (Post 281) for Salvation according to official teaching of “The Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints”?
• What was accomplished by Jesus Christ in His perfect obedience to the Father's will, including His sacrificial death on the cross? I will check for your answers on Friday afternoon. This question is the heart of Point 3.

Your friend only (lol),
BT

good. Since you took me off your ignore list, please go back and respond to all my posts with some substance. Then I'll respond to yours. You have a lot of catching up to do.

do you honestly think it is fair that I have responded to your posts and you don't respond to any of mine but then you try to use me to get something when you want it?

You should treat people like people and not objects. Debating is a two way street. Try actually addressing and responding to my posts, then we can work on your request.

 

[bible truth]

For the third time, you posted the link. Click on it for crying out loud! I didn't just pull it out of thin air.

Dear LDS members,

I did not post the anti-Mormon link above that Katzpur has accused me of doing. I have reported this to the forum administrators to investigate. They are currently looking into this issue. I have asked Katzpur several times to refer all us to the actual posting that she claims that I posted the anti-Mormon link attached above. Katzpur has not provided that actual post that she claims that I made to the link above. I would never delete evidence that would show that I am a sinner. Let's all debate with mutual respect. Please try to distinguish between doctrinal issues and personal feelings. I will always try to debate with you through the Scriptures alone. All of my links are for informational purposes, posted for the purpose to help all us to be more effective in communicating with each other. We need to understand what the other person believes to debate honestly and effectively. - BT

 

[SoyLeche]

Here you go - the post in which you placed the link. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=814816#post814816

It looks like the effect of copying and pasting without actually reading what you are copying and pasting.

 

[Mike182]

this thread is getting out of control... i'm closing it for several reasons.

1) the debate and the off topic banter are so inter-twined the thread just looks a mess
2) members posting about how much they are going to ignore other members adds nothing to the forum
3) a few posts are boarderline insults towards other members and the mod team wants time to look over them.