The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad.

[Mock Turtle]

All this from a book that was sent down with a clear meaning but for 2 billion followers of Islam it has so many,followers of Ali and Muhammad,the sunnah and ahadith,this isn’t clear at all.

But no different from the Bible, and where there are obvious differences as to where such led - different beliefs. I think that is one enormous issue with such texts - being open to interpretation so often - and as to why I can't take them seriously. Other than in any essential truths they might tell us, but which could have come from any piece of literature and/or from the more thinking.

 

[Link]

But no different from the Bible, and where there are obvious differences as to where such led - different beliefs. I think that is one enormous issue with such texts - being open to interpretation so often - and as to why I can't take them seriously. Other than in any essential truths they might tell us, but which could have come from any piece of literature and/or from the more thinking.

Quran has one interpretation possible (many implications and deeper levels but one interpretation), it's actually vividly clearer the more knowledge you gain (deepness of it), and you over time realize it's dark sorcery and something supernatural, that makes people interpret unclearly. Otherwise, the words themselves are very clear.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Quran has one interpretation possible (many implications and deeper levels but one interpretation), it's actually vividly clearer the more knowledge you gain (deepness of it), and you over time realize it's dark sorcery and something supernatural, that makes people interpret unclearly. Otherwise, the words themselves are very clear.

Well if such was so, then why do we have so many differences within Islam (conflicts between those who for whatever reason differ), as to beliefs and/or behaviour? Not the fallible humans being responsible is it? If so, then the Prophet (or Allah/God) was egregiously in error as to understanding human nature, and as to expecting too much of us/them.

 

[Link]

Well if such was so, then why do we have so many differences within Islam (conflicts between those who for whatever reason differ), as to beliefs and/or behaviour? Not the fallible humans being responsible is it? If so, then the Prophet (or Allah/God) was egregiously in error as to understanding human nature, and as to expecting too much of us/them.

The Quran warned of Iblis casting, him and his forces of the Jinn a long with his Qareen (Gog) and his followers Magog (all sorcerers), that if we sin and let it harden out hearts, and there is evil in our hearts, the Quran will become difficult to understand.

This is not due to Quran being unclear, but due to the nature of hearts and sorcery. For example, Iblis magic will make someone argue for a statement 1 +1 = 2, that it's stating 1 and 1=2, rather then accept the clear. You get what I'm saying? And what's worse, is they won't even see it as possible to mean 1+1=2. Otherwise, no one would see statement 1+1=2 in every day life and say it means 1 and 1=2 because not only do you get a false meaning but you are being very foolish and people will not take you seriously.

I can give examples where this is done for example 33:6 is butchered in a matter like that, and people can't even see the clear meaning, but just the butchered meaning that splits into 3 irrelevant topics to one another instead of just letting it flow and be clear.

The Messenger (s) could've just left us and not explained the Quran and paraphrase a summary of it's most central theme, but he did on the Day of Ghadeer per command of 5:67.

The Imams (a) from his family, would become Messengers explaining the Quran and their words are a way to heal through the dark magic and properly perceive Quran.

If people decide to go Salafi Scholars or Sufi leaders or even Shia Marjaas and their empire of scholars, instead of the messages of the Messengers (a), and rely on other then the light of God, and take other then God his Messenger and the security givers, as a intimate for their heart, they will fail in both worlds.

A lot of Quran is just about how to rely on Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) together.

We are in dark times where people laugh at magic existing and even Muslims go out of their way to deny it's reality.

May God teach us the words of Ahlulbayt (a) and make it a healing for us.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The Quran warned of Iblis casting, him and his forces of the Jinn a long with his Qareen (Gog) and his followers Magog (all sorcerers), that if we sin and let it harden out hearts, and there is evil in our hearts, the Quran will become difficult to understand.

This is not due to Quran being unclear, but due to the nature of hearts and sorcery. For example, Iblis magic will make someone argue for a statement 1 +1 = 2, that it's stating 1 and 1=2, rather then accept the clear. You get what I'm saying? And what's worse, is they won't even see it as possible to mean 1+1=2. Otherwise, no one would see statement 1+1=2 in every day life and say it means 1 and 1=2 because not only do you get a false meaning but you are being very foolish and people will not take you seriously.

I can give examples where this is done for example 33:6 is butchered in a matter like that, and people can't even see the clear meaning, but just the butchered meaning that splits into 3 irrelevant topics to one another instead of just letting it flow and be clear.

The Messenger (s) could've just left us and not explained the Quran and paraphrase a summary of it's most central theme, but he did on the Day of Ghadeer per command of 5:67.

The Imams (a) from his family, would become Messengers explaining the Quran and their words are a way to heal through the dark magic and properly perceive Quran.

If people decide to go Salafi Scholars or Sufi leaders or even Shia Marjaas and their empire of scholars, instead of the messages of the Messengers (a), and rely on other then the light of God, and take other then God his Messenger and the security givers, as a intimate for their heart, they will fail in both worlds.

A lot of Quran is just about how to rely on Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) together.

We are in dark times where people laugh at magic existing and even Muslims go out of their way to deny it's reality.

May God teach us the words of Ahlulbayt (a) and make it a healing for us.

Whatever, Islam is just behaving the same as any other religion, or people are, so why would any thinking person see it as being special?

 

[Link]

Whatever, Islam is just behaving the same as any other religion, or people are, so why would any thinking person see it as being special?

The Quran begins with this:


1. By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, the (extensively) Compassionate
2. The praise is to God Lord of the (conscious) Worlds (of beings).
3. The (universally) Compassionate, the (extensively) Compassionate
4. Master of the day of Judgment
5. You do we Worship, and You we seek help from
6. Guide us the straight path
7. The path of those who you favored upon, other then the path of those who your wrath is upon nor the astray.


People might differ on each of these verses and what they mean, Quran goes to expand it and argues somehow, in a way, all the Quran is found in these 7 repeated verses and they both explain one another.

In Salah we recite this chapter minimum twice for Shiites, and Sunnis do it after the first two while that is a choice (option if we want, there is something else we recite that is more beloved per hadiths) for Shiites.

The chapter is so potent, so strong, yet so silent, so weak. It has all the Quran in it, and yet it almost has said nothing, so you need Quran and Sunnah, and striving and reflecting, and over time, this chapter takes on levels.

It literally is like the philosopher stone. It's something else.

7 Mathani it's called in 15th chapter. I'm afraid to translate Mathani, because, some people (cough: @firedragon, cough) hate my translations for some reason when there can be more then one translation.

 

[firedragon]

Whatever, Islam is just behaving the same as any other religion, or people are, so why would any thinking person see it as being special?

Maybe Islam is behaving the same as any other religion, but if that is how shallow your study of things you like to talk about is, how would you know what is special or not?

What a source of truths and propositions you have.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The Quran begins with this:


1. By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, the (extensively) Compassionate
2. The praise is to God Lord of the (conscious) Worlds (of beings).
3. The (universally) Compassionate, the (extensively) Compassionate
4. Master of the day of Judgment
5. You do we Worship, and You we seek help from
6. Guide us the straight path
7. The path of those who you favored upon, (which is other) then the path of those who your wrath is upon nor those who go astray.


People might differ on each of these verses and what they mean, Quran goes to expand it and argues somehow, in a way, all the Quran is found in these 7 repeated verses and they both explain one another.

In Salah we recite this chapter minimum twice for Shiites, and Sunnis do it after the first two while that is a choice (option if we want, there is something else we recite that is more beloved per hadiths) for Shiites.

The chapter is so potent, so strong, yet so silent, so weak. It has all the Quran in it, and yet it almost has said nothing, so you need Quran and Sunnah, and striving and reflecting, and over time, this chapter takes on levels.

It literally is like the philosopher stone. It's something else.

7 Mathani it's called in 15th chapter. I'm afraid to translate Mathani, because, some people (cough: @firedragon, cough) hate my translations for some reason when there can be more then one translation.

Let's face it, I don't care what the Qur'an says, or the Bible (I try to treat them all the same), I just look at them all as being creations of us humans alone, and one reason for this is that they all just look like such - no matter what they might say. And I would expect the writers of such to come up with sufficient explanations as to why many wouldn't believe or be converted. I would expect any religion trying to establish itself after earlier ones to learn and incorporate that which is useful and to in addition go further. This is what Islam apparently has done - the applying to all aspects of life, the rewards and punishments, and the protectionism given even to the Prophet. Why would I think the writing in any religious text would influence me over any other - apart from where it accorded with what makes sense in life?

 

[Link]

Quran was revealed in Sadness and meant to be recited in Sadness. They are tears of the Compassionate God, whether frustrated wrath tones or disappointments, even paradise is described in a way of grief from God because so many won't enter.

Feel the emotion of Quranic tone, believe in it, it's exalted, it's high, it's God.

While it's tears, nothing is stronger in tone and might then tears of God.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Maybe Islam is behaving the same as any other religion, but if that is how shallow your study of things you like to talk about is, how would you know what is special or not?

What a source of truths and propositions you have.

Well perhaps I base such on some understanding of human nature - shallow as that might be. And as to there being so many different faiths. You have an explanation for the latter, when of course Islam could have been the first rather than the last - major religion. So why was that? Perhaps you are the shallow one in accepting Islam. Where did you get your belief from - schooling perhaps?

And I should add, observing Muslims around the world, as compared with those of any other faith, I see little difference, especially when the rich Arab states are doing nothing to foster any such belief as to being exemplary examples of human nature.

 

[Link]

And I should add, observing Muslims around the world, as compared with those of any other faith, I see little difference, especially when the rich Arab states are doing nothing to foster any such belief as to being exemplary examples of human nature.

I agree with you. But people aren't the standard.

 

[firedragon]

Well perhaps I base such on some understanding of human nature - shallow as that might be.

Okay. So show me the literature if that is the case. Thanks.

And as to there being so many different faiths. You have an explanation for the latter, when of course Islam could have been the first rather than the last - major religion. So why was that?

Can you show me an internal criticism of Islam pertaining to what you said above? For example, Islam says it is the first religion, and Islam says it is the last religion or "last major religion"? Thanks.

Perhaps you are the shallow one in accepting Islam. Where did you get your belief from - schooling perhaps?

No.

Perhaps you should be providing the research asked above.

Thanks.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Okay. So show me the literature if that is the case. Thanks.



Can you show me an internal criticism of Islam pertaining to what you said above? For example, Islam says it is the first religion, and Islam says it is the last religion or "last major religion"? Thanks.



No.

Perhaps you should be providing the research asked above.

Thanks.

No, just tell me where you got your beliefs from. Like investigating all the others perhaps and selecting the most believable - or something else. Not playing your games.

 

[firedragon]

7 Mathani

you mean masaani?

 

[firedragon]

No, just tell me where you got your beliefs from. Like investigating all the others perhaps and selecting the most believable - or something else. Not playing your games.

So you have no research both of what you said earlier right? Just conjecture so now of course you have to try to turn and ask some personal and general question to avoid the fact that "you just made things up" and pretended they are based on research. I will try and ignore that.

Anyway, since you ask me about my beliefs and where I got it from, in order to avoid your made up statements you cannot substantiate, I shall tell you that "of course unlike you I have explored as much as I can" and I have chosen the most reasonable.

Now I expect some ad hominem from you, because I can see you have avoided the things you made up.

 

[Link]

you mean masaani?

yes

 

[firedragon]

yes

You mean like Iteration. That name some people use for the chapter fathiha. Sabaa al masaani.

 

[Link]

Surah Fatiha is the philosopher's stone.

 

[Link]

You mean like Iteration. That name some people use for the chapter fathiha. Sabaa al masaani.

That's a good word. Yeah I think I will use that by now on.

The Seven Iterations.

 

[firedragon]

But no different from the Bible,

Do you have any research on this topic or is that also just conjecture.