The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad.

[Mock Turtle]

So you have no research both of what you said earlier right? Just conjecture so now of course you have to try to turn and ask some personal and general question to avoid the fact that "you just made things up" and pretended they are based on research. I will try and ignore that.

Anyway, since you ask me about my beliefs and where I got it from, in order to avoid your made up statements you cannot substantiate, I shall tell you that "of course unlike you I have explored as much as I can" and I have chosen the most reasonable.

Now I expect some ad hominem from you, because I can see you have avoided the things you made up.

You seriously expect me to cite all the works I might have come across, read, digested, noted and categorised perhaps. Do/did you do the same? Plus all that I have experienced in life, noted as appropriate (non-biased) news, and all conversations I might ever have had. Why would anyone have to do 'research' as you call it when we generally don't do such for most of our beliefs - the vast majority at least. And what would you regard as appropriate 'research' - I can guess as to imbibing all the religious texts of the world of course - but really not practical for any sensible person.

As to your last comments, I doubt you have, given that you have chosen one of the many, and where it probably just mostly appeals to you - if you weren't actually taught such as a child.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Do you have any research on this topic or is that also just conjecture.

No, of course I read a few pages of both.

 

[Link]

Mock Turtle, are you aware of the bet argument thing (chance of hell, don't risk it, because it's forever argument thing) ? Pascal's wager I think it's called.

I think it's the start of wisdom.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Mock Turtle, are you aware of the bet argument thing (chance of hell, don't risk it, because it's forever argument thing) ? Pascal's wager I think it's called.

I think it's the start of wisdom.

It's a load of nonsense.

 

[Link]

It's a load of nonsense.

Why is that?

 

[firedragon]

You seriously expect me to cite all the works I might have come across, read, digested, noted and categorised perhaps.

No. Only the relevant ones.

No, of course I read a few pages of both.

So basically made up propositions.

 

[firedragon]

As to your last comments, I doubt you have, given that you have chosen one of the many

More conjecture.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Why is that?

Because basically it only applies to one concept of God - and that defined by a particular religion perhaps - and also it is deceptive, if one just doesn't believe but makes out to be as such. Why would we expect any such God to accept such deception? Either one does believe in a God or one does not, and being forced into believing because of some contrivance is just dishonest. Being agnostic, as I am, is far more honest.

 

[Mock Turtle]

More conjecture.

OK, tell us you education as to such.

 

[Link]

Because basically it only applies to one concept of God - and that defined by a particular religion perhaps - and also it is deceptive, if one just doesn't believe but makes out to be as such. Why would we expect any such God to accept such deception? Either one does believe in a God or one does not, and being forced into believing because of some contrivance is just dishonest. Being agnostic, as I am, is far more honest.

You haven't understood it. I will explain it. He clarifies in his works, he is not saying to pretend to believe in God, but to seek God and seek to study religion(s) and not to bet the other way. He doesn't say hell is a certainty and start from there, he says, for all you know it's true, so don't risk it. Don't risk it as in not pretend to believe, but research, hang around spiritual/religious people, try to find God.

I think he is reasonable. He says it's too much of a risk, nothing in the world and no life lived, can be worth that risk.

 

[firedragon]

OK, tell us you education as to such.

Nope.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You haven't understood it. I will explain it. He clarifies in his works, he is not saying to pretend to believe in God, but to seek God and seek to study religion(s) and not to bet the other way. He doesn't say hell is a certainty and start from there, he says, for all you know it's true, so don't risk it. Don't risk it as in not pretend to believe, but research, hang around spiritual/religious people, try to find God.

I think he is reasonable. He says it's too much of a risk, nothing in the world and no life lived, can be worth that risk.

But this is still just from one religious viewpoint, as to accepting such notions anyway - Heaven and Hell - and it is still a contrivance if one has to make a decision based on some outcome. As many would say - we should live the lives as best we think fit, and being as honest as we can be - and hence cannot complain if and when we do go to Hell. Such is my approach.

 

[Link]

But this is still just from one religious viewpoint, as to accepting such notions anyway - Heaven and Hell - and it is still a contrivance if one has to make a decision based on some outcome. As many would say - we should live the lives as best we think fit, and being as honest as we can be - and hence cannot complain if and when we do go to Hell. Such is my approach.

It doesn't matter, it can be there is no religion with that viewpoint. It's still not worth the risk, until, you know for sure hell won't be the end result.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Nope.

Oh go on - I'm sure we would all love to hear about such.

 

[Link]

He writes a lot. I summarized, but he argues various views, religions, etc, doesn't do anything with this argument.

And when you reflect, he is correct. Nothing can be worth the risk.

 

[Mock Turtle]

It doesn't matter, it can be there is no religion with that viewpoint. It's still not worth the risk, until, you know for sure hell won't be the end result.

Well we take risks often in life - not choosing a particular religion might be one of them - or doing so.

 

[Link]

He wrote pages and pages, so I would read the original. Also read the original works for ontological arguments of both versions of both authors(they really the same but people try to make it different and misrepresent both).

 

[firedragon]

Oh go on - I'm sure we would all love to hear about such.

I'm sure gossip is your research methodology. Juicy isn't it?

So, no.

 

[Link]

Well we take risks often in life - not choosing a particular religion might be one of them - or doing so.

Yeah but forever is a very very long time. So until you are sure, there is no risk, he is saying bet on as if it's true (there is a hell) and you live your life in a way to find out if it's true or not, don't give up striving because it's too risky.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm sure gossip is your research methodology. Juicy isn't it?

So, no.

Well I'm sure it takes one to know one.