The Labour Party anti-Semitism

[Keith Nielsen]

To those that accuse the Blairites as of smears - when you find Hamas and Hezbollah being friends, Zionists not understanding English irony, links to Raed Salah, Ibrahim Hewitt, wreathes being laid where they shouldn't be, the endorsement by KKK leader David Duke, fellow far-left cult members Yvonne Ridley, George Galloway and Ken Livingstone being Antisemitic, John Rees linked to Hamas, Lindsey German praising Hamas and Hezbollah, the "hand of Israel" and working for Iranian anti-Semitic propaganda network Press TV people are right to be concerned. Stop the smears of Frank Field. Stop the antisemitism!
The Anti-Semitism Scandal Takes A Worrying Turn As DISGRACEFUL Corbynites SMEAR Frank Field Online

 

[Lyndon]

For the 100th time, being opposed to Zionist policies towards the Palestinians is not anti-Semitism. A lot of Jews oppose Zionism also.

 

[exchemist]

To those that accuse the Blairites as of smears - when you find Hamas and Hezbollah being friends, Zionists not understanding English irony, links to Raed Salah, Ibrahim Hewitt, wreathes being laid where they shouldn't be, the endorsement by KKK leader David Duke, fellow far-left cult members Yvonne Ridley, George Galloway and Ken Livingstone being Antisemitic, John Rees linked to Hamas, Lindsey German praising Hamas and Hezbollah, the "hand of Israel" and working for Iranian anti-Semitic propaganda network Press TV people are right to be concerned. Stop the smears of Frank Field. Stop the antisemitism!
The Anti-Semitism Scandal Takes A Worrying Turn As DISGRACEFUL Corbynites SMEAR Frank Field Online

I heartily agree with both sentiments. The far-Left takeover of Labour is tragic and risks disenfranchising many of Labour's traditional supporters by leaving them nowhere to turn.

Having said that, I do feel there is a lot of posing and cant around the antisemitism issue here. It is quite fair and reasonable for politicians and parties to make a clear distinction between Jews as a racial and religious group on the one hand and the policies of the Israeli government and the views of some of its supporters on the other. Some of the suggestions for ways in which Labour can eliminate the current criticism strike me as asking them to shut down legitimate debate abut geopolitics. I would be strongly opposed to that.

The term "Zionist" for instance is a double-edged one. It can simply mean supporters of the concept of the state of Israel. Or it can refer to those using religious justification for evicting Palestinians from their homes with a bulldozer. A Palestinian's perception of what the word means could be rather different from that of a North London Jew. This is understandable and not a criticism of either.

 

[exchemist]

For the 100th time, being opposed to Zionist policies towards the Palestinians is not anti-Semitism. A lot of Jews oppose Zionism also.

Amen.

 

[Woberts]

Eh, they're assuming this is correct they're still the best party.

 

[Shaul]

For the 100th time, being opposed to Zionist policies towards the Palestinians is not anti-Semitism. A lot of Jews oppose Zionism also.

Actually no. Zionism in its purest form is simply the nationalist aspirations of the Jewish people. While some Jews oppose the national policies of the State of Israel or extremist elements of Zionism no Jew can oppose Zionism per se and remain Jewish. Furthermore many, many gentiles and self-hating Jews try to inoculate themselves against charges of hating Jews by trying to gin up some distinction between being merely against Zionism. In effect this is as if trying to say they don’t hate Jews, they just oppose them being a nation with a land of its own. This, of course, is nonsense. Also there is nothing in Zionism itself that requires being against any other people, including the Palestinians.

 

[Lyndon]

Zionist rubbish!!!!

 

[Shaul]

Zionist rubbish!!!!

Anti-Zionism - Wikipedia

 

[Flankerl]

So Corbyns supporters are going to hold a discussion about all the allegations on the evening of the 18th September.
But they probably don't want Jews to attend.

Why?

That's the day of Yom Kippur.


What a coincidence.

 

[exchemist]

Actually no. Zionism in its purest form is simply the nationalist aspirations of the Jewish people. While some Jews oppose the national policies of the State of Israel or extremist elements of Zionism no Jew can oppose Zionism per se and remain Jewish. Furthermore many, many gentiles and self-hating Jews try to inoculate themselves against charges of hating Jews by trying to gin up some distinction between being merely against Zionism. In effect this is as if trying to say they don’t hate Jews, they just oppose them being a nation with a land of its own. This, of course, is nonsense. Also there is nothing in Zionism itself that requires being against any other people, including the Palestinians.

I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this topic, obviously, but tell me, why does a Jew cease to be Jewish if he does not share the nationalist aspiration for the Jews? Is nationalism that deeply ingrained in the Jewish religion?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

For the 100th time, being opposed to Zionist policies towards the Palestinians is not anti-Semitism. A lot of Jews oppose Zionism also.

Any particular reason you think the Jews should not have their own country when every Gentile nation they've tried to settle in has made it abundantly clear they're not welcome?

Still not really sure why

1. You criticise Israel at every opportunity but have never ever (to the best of my knowledge) criticised the various Arab nations around it which invariably are much crueller to their populations;
2. You think the 'Holy Land' would be better off as yet another Arab dictatorship;

As to the OP; if this had come up a few years ago I might have defended Corbyn - I still think he gets a disproportionate amount of scrutiny from the media in comparison to members of the Tory Party - but at this point I just don't have the conviction to defend him. He's a bitter disappointment to those of us on the Left who thought he'd steer Labour away from its current Blarite position.

That his more ardent followers are now trying to turn these claims of anti-Semitism on Corbyn's part (whether they're accurate or not) into yet another thing to blame Israel for leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm not really interested in attempts to defame Labour Party leaders in this way.

We have one of the best Equality Acts in the World, and if anybody is breaking this legislation then let them be arrested, tried and a verdict given.

Otherwise the shouters can all shut up.

 

[Shaul]

I have to bow to your superior knowledge on this topic, obviously, but tell me, why does a Jew cease to be Jewish if he does not share the nationalist aspiration for the Jews? Is nationalism that deeply ingrained in the Jewish religion?

Zionism can not be separated from Judaism, the religion of the Jews. It isn’t even a question of nationalism. It is that the Torah says that national Israel has a covenant with HaShem. HaShem has promised that the Jewish nation cannot cease to exist and will one day be restored to erecting Yisrael. A Jew, or a gentile for that matter, that denies there should be nationhood for the Jews is calling HaShem a liar.

 

[England my lionheart]

Labours association with hamas and hezbollah,that's antisemitic just on its own.

 

[Lyndon]

Trumps association with the American Nazi Party is pretty anti semitic too!! And equally well supported!!

 

[exchemist]

Zionism can not be separated from Judaism, the religion of the Jews. It isn’t even a question of nationalism. It is that the Torah says that national Israel has a covenant with HaShem. HaShem has promised that the Jewish nation cannot cease to exist and will one day be restored to erecting Yisrael. A Jew, or a gentile for that matter, that denies there should be nationhood for the Jews is calling HaShem a liar.

I see. My respect for Judaism has just taken a serious knock. I cannot respect a religious belief that, in the modern world, entitles the believer to land, merely on account of his faith.

 

[England my lionheart]

I see. My respect for Judaism has just taken a serious knock. I cannot respect a religious belief that, in the modern world, entitles the believer to land, merely on account of his faith.

History will tell you a different story.

 

[exchemist]

History will tell you a different story.

How?

 

[England my lionheart]

How?

Palestine was Israel till the Romans changed it, the British beat the ottomans in Ww1, the solution was to create a safe land for the Jewish people to live to escape persecution from the pogroms in Russia.

Palestine was under British control so the balfour treaty 1917 or proposal came about and the return of the state of Israel declared in 1948, obviously since then the holocaust happened so Israels population swelled.

Although I would agree that nobody has claims on a land based on faith neither does hamas which is purely based on faith.

 

[exchemist]

Palestine was Israel till the Romans changed it, the British beat the ottomans in Ww1, the solution was to create a safe land for the Jewish people to live to escape persecution from the pogroms in Russia.

Palestine was under British control so the balfour treaty 1917 or proposal came about and the return of the state of Israel declared in 1948, obviously since then the holocaust happened so Israels population swelled.

Although I would agree that nobody has claims on a land based on faith neither does hamas which is purely based on faith.

Don't disagree with your history. But as I said, what shocks me is that in the modern world a respected religion of civilised people contains a belief (moreover, according to Shaul a core belief, such that one who does not share it cannot belong to the religion) that people are entitled to literal, physical, land because it has been given to them by God. That strikes me as atrociously primitive and obviously bound to lead to hatred and conflict!