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The Jehovah's witnesses and the rest. What's the stumper?

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Look it up. There is a long Wiki article on it, for instance. It's been standard Catholic theology for centuries.

One important point of difference between most Protestant denominations and the more traditional strands of Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican) is the idea of apostolic succession of the priesthood. This promotes the idea that the successors of the Apostles, through the sacrament of ordination, have authority to elaborate further doctrines that may not be explicitly stated in scripture. The faith is thus alive and evolving, rather than consisting simply of studying endlessly the same texts written 2000 years ago.

Now, Protestants can argue with some justice that this idea is all too easy to abuse and has in fact been abused in the past, but it is the reason why you will find theological ideas in these older faiths that go beyond the words of scripture. (In point of fact, whether they admit it or not, virtually all Protestant faiths also have some theological principles and ideas that are not written as such in scripture - you can't really have any sort of Christianity without making some judgements on how to interpret scripture.)
Okay,,,,, So where within God's word, the Bible, is this 'purgatory' teaching spoke of ??? And where within God's word, the Bible, is there a command that there should be 'successors of the Apostles' ??? I know, that the Bible does state clearly that NOTHING should ever be added to, or taken out of God's word, and that whomever chooses to do so, shall be cursed.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Okay,,,,, So where within God's word, the Bible, is this 'purgatory' teaching spoke of ??? And where within God's word, the Bible, is there a command that there should be 'successors of the Apostles' ??? I know, that the Bible does state clearly that NOTHING should ever be added to, or taken out of God's word, and that whomever chooses to do so, shall be cursed.
Very good......
So many churches have spun their own ideas in to Christianity.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Bless your heart. You just cannot wrap your head around the simple logic, that if you continue to gnaw on your empty philosophical bone, that comes from mere milk, you will absolutely NEVER be mature enough to eat steak that comes from God's Kingdom. Considering all of your truly arrogant statements, that I have witnessed you replying to several people here on this site, I see no sincerely humble fruitage in you. However, Do know this Dogknox20, you do still have a small window of time to come to your senses, before your beloved Babylon the Great gets knocked off her keister. Rev.18:4 "And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people,+ if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins,+ and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven,+ and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.+ 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered,+ and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did;+ in the cup+ in which she put a mixture put twice+ as much of the mixture for her.+ 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning.+ For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen,+ and I am no widow,+ and I shall never see mourning.’+ 8 That is why in one day her plagues+ will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire,+ because Jehovah* God, who judged her, is strong.+"
Misty Woods what are you saying? That the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established failed?! Are you saying, Jesus built of sand?! Are you calling Jesus' Holy Body a WHORE!?
Are you saying God lied!? "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world"!
Are you saying "The Holy Spirit guided into ERROR not into ALL truth!?
Are you saying: "The Church taught lies to all nations"?
Are you saying "The Church got it wrong when she put the bible together in the fourth Century!" (Can you trust your bible is the inspired words of God if you reject the Church that made it?)
Are you saying "The man made Jehovah Witness Church is NOT the Anti-Christ" (Anti-Christ rejects Christ' body) "There will come Many Anti-Christs!"

LOOK.... “‘Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you’. . . . In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth” (18:20, 24).
Misty Woods This shows that the Whore persecuted not just Christians, but apostles and prophets, the Whore must have existed in the first century. Apostles existed only in the first century, since one of the requirements for being an apostle was seeing the risen Christ (1 Cor. 9:1). Prophets existed as a group only in the Old Testament and in the first century (Acts 11:27–28, 13:1, 15:32, 21:10).
Rome was not a Christian city in the first century time, and Vatican City did not even exist.
You claim that Catholicism did not exist in the first century, meaning that based of your argument ; Catholicism could not be the Whore!

Misty Woods So why is the Bride of Jesus called the Whore? Jesus himself answered the question: “If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Matt. 10:25).
If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world . . . the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you” (John 15:18–20).

Mary' Prophesy proves your whole argument wrong! Luke 1 "From now on all Generations will call me blessed"!
From the first century Catholics have honored Mary as blessed! Catholic's are in Mary' family tree! Catholics are in the GENERATIONS of Mary, her descendance through Jesus! To call Mary' grand children (Catholics) Whore you are forced to reject the scriptures as LIES!
2 Peter 2:1 "From within the Church will come false teachers!" This prophesy is a lie if the One Holy Catholic Church failed!
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Then you weren't listening to what the pastors and priests actually say.

At every single mass, there are a minimum of two scripture readings from the Bible (three on weekends), not including brief readings from the Psalms, and then the homily (sermon) MUST reflect the readings from the Gospel and at least one of the other readings. This is part of Canon Law, thus the priest has no option but to do this.

Are you perfect? If you're not, then shame on you according to your own words above. Pastors and priests are not perfect either.

Thus, please stop lying (see the part of your post I underlined) as it puts into question other things you might say.
Oh I beg your pardon, if I came off as sounding arrogant within my statement that you underlined.

I have always been an analytical thinker, that listens intently, and asks many questions when I am finding no logic…. Such as, at the age of 10 when I asked my Nanny’s preacher,( where I received my Baptist upbringing), ‘why did you say, that drinking and dancing were sinful, and yet Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding, (where I already knew that dancing does take place at such events). And why is it okay for the deacon of your church to own a liquor store? All I got was a pat on the head with a smile, and a “out of the mouths of babes” brush off, while their plate got passed around, under the noses of their pew sitters for more money.

Thanks to my mixed family upbringing, I spent much time with multiple family and friends attending their different protestant religious faiths, within the ranges that I mentioned before, ALL of them taught that if you’re good you go heaven, and if you’re bad you go to hell. By the time I reached the age of 12, I had already attended 4 funerals, where each individual was preached right on up into heaven ‘to be with the Lord’. YET, at that prime age of 12, I listened to that Assembly of God preacher, preach, (who I personally knew was a beastly man that regularly beat, to the point of broken bones, his wife and his children), right on up into heaven to be with the Lord, and those 4 other good, and decent folks that I once knew. You can certainly bet your bloomers, that I asked that preacher MANY QUESTIONS, for which he had no logical answers to give, and he showed me NOTHING logical from God’s word.

My mother, my father, and my catholic step-mother, followed the disgraceful pope’s lead in causing me, as a 1year old infant, to be made into an illegitmate child, by having my mother and father’s marriage annulled. I have personally spoke to 3 different catholic priests that CANNOT logically explain this despicable behavior, of placing such a negative mark on innocent children, (YES, WORDS HAVE MEANING).

I learned from questioning the many different pastors, preachers,and priests, that most all of the protestants follow the catholics lead, when it comes to the unscriptual trinity doctrine, because they’ve been told, that they must accept such nonsensical mumbo jumbo, in order to make it to heaven to be with the Lord. Jesus did say, ‘let the children come to me’,,,, So Honestly,,,,If you cannot explain something so that even a child can confidently understand it, then anyone of sincere and logical mind, should know that they are truly missing some necessary puzzle pieces.

And oh my goodness, the ‘purgatory’, and all the money, that I’ve personally seen my blindly trusting step-mother, and the rest of her family pay to the catholic church, to get their loved ones out of such a dark and insane place. I mean SERIOUSLY, what could their deceast possibly have done, to deserve going to such a horrible place, while that beastly man got preached right up into heaven???????????

At the age of 13, my Nanny, who was my closest friend passed away. Her preacher assured me that ‘she was in a much better place, and at peace with the Lord, and that she is now watching over me’. That made absolutely no sense to me, since I knew that she loved me more than my own mother. I mean really, HOW, can she possibly be at peace, watching over me while my whole world, and my heart is completely shattered with her being taken away from me???? AGAIN, NO LOGIC !

Without my Nanny’s love and guidance, I ended up pregnant at the age of 16. I gave birth to, and held that precious babygirl in my arms until, SUPPOSEDLY, ‘God needed another angel to be in Heaven, and so He took my 3 week old babygirl to be in heaven with Him’,,,,…. ‘It’s just so hard for us to grasp the reasons for the things that God does, but we must maintain our faith in Him, that He knows what is best’

So what was I thinking about God at this point????? YEAH, SURE, OKAY, IF GOD IS SUCH A MONSTER, THAT HE GIVES US PEOPLE TO LOVE, INCLUDING INNOCENT BABIES, ONLY TO TAKE THEM BACK,,,,,,,, THEN I’M DONE WITH YOUR SO CALLED GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the age of 26, I had this beautiful little 6 year old daughter, that asked me the most basic and innocent question,, ‘Mama, is Nancy,(her deceased sister), in heaven?’…… All that I could honestly tell her, was what I had always been told, however I did not know how and where in the bible to prove such a belief, since no pastor, preacher, or priest had ever been capable of such biblical proof.

Interestingly enough, I got that knock on my door the very next day, and FINALLY, I was shown God’s word “Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil” Heb.2:14…………… Now if you, or anyone else cannot see this scripture as the complete opposite, of what I had been told during my upbringing, concerning death, then you are truly the sort, as to why honest hearted humans were warned at Matt.7 and 2 Thess.2:3,9-12, as well as elsewhere about your sort.
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Misty Woods what are you saying? That the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established failed?! Are you saying, Jesus built of sand?! Are you calling Jesus' Holy Body a WHORE!?
Are you saying God lied!? "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of the world"!
Are you saying "The Holy Spirit guided into ERROR not into ALL truth!?
Are you saying: "The Church taught lies to all nations"?
Are you saying "The Church got it wrong when she put the bible together in the fourth Century!" (Can you trust your bible is the inspired words of God if you reject the Church that made it?)
Are you saying "The man made Jehovah Witness Church is NOT the Anti-Christ" (Anti-Christ rejects Christ' body) "There will come Many Anti-Christs!"

LOOK.... “‘Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you’. . . . In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth” (18:20, 24).
Misty Woods This shows that the Whore persecuted not just Christians, but apostles and prophets, the Whore must have existed in the first century. Apostles existed only in the first century, since one of the requirements for being an apostle was seeing the risen Christ (1 Cor. 9:1). Prophets existed as a group only in the Old Testament and in the first century (Acts 11:27–28, 13:1, 15:32, 21:10).
Rome was not a Christian city in the first century time, and Vatican City did not even exist.
You claim that Catholicism did not exist in the first century, meaning that based of your argument ; Catholicism could not be the Whore!

Misty Woods So why is the Bride of Jesus called the Whore? Jesus himself answered the question: “If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Matt. 10:25).
If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world . . . the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you” (John 15:18–20).

Mary' Prophesy proves your whole argument wrong! Luke 1 "From now on all Generations will call me blessed"!
From the first century Catholics have honored Mary as blessed! Catholic's are in Mary' family tree! Catholics are in the GENERATIONS of Mary, her descendance through Jesus! To call Mary' grand children (Catholics) Whore you are forced to reject the scriptures as LIES!
2 Peter 2:1 "From within the Church will come false teachers!" This prophesy is a lie if the One Holy Catholic Church failed!
Dude, Seriously,,,,, have you ever tried Kava Kava?
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Hello Misty Woods I hope all is well.... You asked.. where do you believe they received this purgatory idea? I reply: From the scriptures!

1 John 5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

QUESTION: Is there sin that does NOT kill?! Is there sin that does kill sins that lead to death?! Clearly from the above verse there is!
Think a person dies with a sin that does NOT KILL.... He cannot enter heaven, scriptures tell us NOTHING impure can enter heaven! The person must be SACTIFYED before they can enter heaven! They will not go to hell because their sin did not kill their soul!
You should pray for them... you should pray and God will give them life.! Prayers for the dead will give them life in heaven!

Notice also the verse starts with "Brother of Sister"? This means those people that have been IMMERSED into the Holy Body of Jesus, all those in Jesus are "Brother & Sisters of Jesus"!

1 Corinthians 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Misty Woods again the fires of the Holy Spirit will SACTIFY those people that are destined for heaven!
You seriously believe this explains your beloved purgatory? Really ???????
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Oh I beg your pardon, if I came off as sounding arrogant within my statement that you underlined.
Are being real or is the above sarcastic? I can't tell by the wording, so I hope it's the former

And why is it okay for the deacon of your church to own a liquor store?
What does this have to do with what we were talking about?

My mother, my father, and my catholic step-mother, followed the disgraceful pope’s lead in causing me, as a 1year old infant, to be made into an illegitmate child, by having my mother and father’s marriage annulled
One is not "illegitimate" for any such reason, plus we don't even use such terminology nowadays. It used to be important centuries ago for inheritance reasons, but now that is handled by the state through laws.

And oh my goodness, the ‘purgatory’, and all the money, that I’ve personally seen my blindly trusting step-mother, and the rest of her family pay to the catholic church, to get their loved ones out of such a dark and insane place.
What does this have to do with what we were talking about?

Now if you, or anyone else cannot see this scripture as the complete opposite, of what I had been told during my upbringing, concerning death, then you are truly the sort, as to why honest hearted humans were warned at Matt.7 and 2 Thess.2:3,9-12, as well as elsewhere about your sort.
Well, what "sort" I may be is not up to you.

So, if you just want to post rant after rant, go right ahead, but I have better things to do.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Dude, Seriously,,,,, have you ever tried Kava Kava?
Misty Woods have you read the scriptures or do you just believe everything the WT tells you?!

"I am with you ALWAYS to the end of time"!
"I will send the Holy Spirit to be with you FOREVER"!
"I will build my church on ROCK the gates of hell will NOT prevail against it"!
"When I sent the Holy Spirit he will guide you into ALL TRUTH"!
"Jesus died for his Church"!
"Jesus LOVES his Church"!
"The Church is the Body of Jesus"!

Your WT tells you; Jesus failed? Scriptures are very clear "There will be many Anti-Christs come into the world"! Anti-Christ must reject the scriptures or twist the scriptures to reject Jesus and his holy bride!


I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Misty Woods The word was God and the word became flesh and lived among us!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
You seriously believe this explains your beloved purgatory? Really ???????

Misty Woods I hope you are well.... Logic alone tells you.. All souls need to be sanctified before they can enter heaven! NOTHING impure shell enter! Think of Purgatory as a SACTIFACATION of the soul rather then a place!
Revelation 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Misty Woods You want scriptures about Purgatory ........ Okay here are a few!
I Corinthians 3:11-15
For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Clearly this text (above) speaks of the judgment of God where the works of the faithful will be tested after death. Some of the “works” represented are being burned up and some are being purified. HE the man will suffer loss. HIS actions good or bad are tested. The BAD are sins!
Misty Woods sins are bad or wicked works. If these “works” do not represent sins and imperfections, why would they need to be eliminated?

Another scripture... Matthew 5:25 Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; 26 truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny

Misty Woods till you have paid the last penny Purgatorial suffering will be required for lesser transgressions; you will pay for your sins!

I add this story; Jesus told this about The Rich Man and Lazarus Luke 16!
The Rich Man goes to a place of torment! note... The Rich Man calls Abraham his Father! If the Rich Man was in Gehenna Satan would be his father NOT Abraham! AND...
Misty Woods and Abraham called the Rich Man SON! If the Rich Man was in Gehenna Abraham would never call him SON because the saved are the descendance of Abraham! Note ... The Rich Man wants Lazarus to go to his brothers to warn them... IF...
Misty Woods if the Rich Man was in Gehenna he would be full of hate he would have NO Compassion he is concerned for others he is NOT selfish! ALSO NOTE THIS verse... 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

THINK.... Who would want to go visit anyone in hell: who would want to go visit anyone in Gehenna the place of Satan.. NO ONE! All In Gehenna cannot leave they have been judged! nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

There might be some willing to go to those being Sanctified! NOW.....

Misty Woods now this is a good place to put in the verse about praying for the dead!
1 John 5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

A person that dies without a sin that kills the soul can be saved by prayers! The Protestant (you all none Catholic) refuses to pray for the dead; they care for the children all of their little lives feeding them, making sure they are happy but when the child dies, then need the most help they are abandoned!

THINK... This girl was dead... But another approached person (her father) went to Jesus for help and she was set alive again!
Mark 5:23 He pleaded earnestly with him, “My little daughter is dying. Please come and put your hands on her so that she will be healed and live.
35 While Jesus was still speaking, some people came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue leader. “Your daughter is dead,” they said. “Why bother the teacher anymore?”

Misty Woods The petition to Jesus from the father saved the Dead daughter! you should pray and God will give them life.

Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This verse (above) suggests that there are some sins that will be forgiven in the age to come. If there is no purification after death, then this passage doesn’t make much sense.


I add.... In the Old testament the Jews prayed for the dead. The book of Maccabees is in my Catholic bible this book was taken out of your bible by Protestants about 200 years ago! This book PROVES the Jews prayed for their dead, they offered sacrifices for their souls! It is documented in this book.. Like it or not it still proves Prayers for the dead had merit!
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Are being real or is the above sarcastic? I can't tell by the wording, so I hope it's the former

What does this have to do with what we were talking about?

One is not "illegitimate" for any such reason, plus we don't even use such terminology nowadays. It used to be important centuries ago for inheritance reasons, but now that is handled by the state through laws.

What does this have to do with what we were talking about?

Well, what "sort" I may be is not up to you.

So, if you just want to post rant after rant, go right ahead, but I have better things to do.
Are being real or is the above sarcastic? I can't tell by the wording, so I hope it's the former
Yes, I am very real, and in no way intended to come off as arrogant toward you.
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
One is not "illegitimate" for any such reason, plus we don't even use such terminology nowadays. It used to be important centuries ago for inheritance reasons, but now that is handled by the state through laws.
I am 53, and words do have meaning regardless of what spin you attempt to put on it.
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
So, if you just want to post rant after rant, go right ahead, but I have better things to do.
No rant... Just responding to your statement that I did not listen to what the pastors and priests were saying....
 

Misty Woods

A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Misty Woods have you read the scriptures or do you just believe everything the WT tells you?!

"I am with you ALWAYS to the end of time"!
"I will send the Holy Spirit to be with you FOREVER"!
"I will build my church on ROCK the gates of hell will NOT prevail against it"!
"When I sent the Holy Spirit he will guide you into ALL TRUTH"!
"Jesus died for his Church"!
"Jesus LOVES his Church"!
"The Church is the Body of Jesus"!

Your WT tells you; Jesus failed? Scriptures are very clear "There will be many Anti-Christs come into the world"! Anti-Christ must reject the scriptures or twist the scriptures to reject Jesus and his holy bride!


I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Misty Woods The word was God and the word became flesh and lived among us!
Yeah, sure, okay
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Yes, I am very real, and in no way intended to come off as arrogant toward you.

Your post was not directed towards me but to metis Post 831... You are not arrogant; I think you are being brain washed by the Watch Tower truly no offence intended!

Mark 13:32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Misty Woods how many times have the WTS prophesied the date of the end of the world?!

How can 144 thousand JW men be saved when the 144 thousand are "Male Virgins!?
3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb.
I know the watch Tower have come up with some twisted way of justifying their teaching BUT... THINK you your own head!

No blood transfusions...
The scriptures are Old Testament prohibitions against eating blood! Gen 9:4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
New Testament disciplinary, not doctrinal—to Gentiles of the early Church to abstain from eating blood.
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Misty Woods Verse #29 (above) Abstaining merely for the sake of not offending Jewish Christians of the time.
Again the Watch Tower has twisted God' words to justify their erroneous teaching... THINK for yourself!
Ten Commandments... "Do not Kill!" is a direct COMMAND from God.. Killing children by refusing "Blood Transfusion" is a grave sin of your church!

With all respect Dogknox20
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Yeah, sure, okay
Misty Woods have you read the scriptures or do you just believe everything the WT tells you?!
(From post 837)
"I am with you ALWAYS to the end of time"!
"I will send the Holy Spirit to be with you FOREVER"!
"I will build my church on ROCK the gates of hell will NOT prevail against it"!
"When I sent the Holy Spirit he will guide you into ALL TRUTH"!
"Jesus died for his Church"!
"Jesus LOVES his Church"!
"The Church is the Body of Jesus"!
Your WT tells you; Jesus failed? Scriptures are very clear "There will be many Anti-Christs come into the world"! Anti-Christ must reject the scriptures or twist the scriptures to reject Jesus and his holy bride!
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Misty Woods The word was God and the word became flesh and lived among us!


Your reply: Yeah, sure, okay
Misty Woods My question to you is... If the Church failed 2000 years ago then are these scriptures (above) a lie!? Are all the early Church fathers a lie? Can you find even one early document that tows the line of the Watch Tower!?

LOGIC alone says "The Church, the body of Jesus would never fail; God would never let it fail!" Your Watch Tower must reject all logic and Scriptures to teach God failed!
Jesus built his body on ROCK not on sand, it will never fail!
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Correct-- Jesus was.

Well, he was the spiritual leader of the Church after Jesus was crucified, but James was the administrative head and Judas the treasurer.

No, it's not "safe to say" as he [Peter] was the Bishop of Rome, which Clement, Ignatius and others chimed in on with their letters near the beginning of the 2nd century. However, the title of "Pope" would not be used for several centuries.

The real importance here is that Peter was only one figure, albeit an important one, whereas its's really all of the apostles, minus Judas of course, who ran the Church and appointed others to replace them and to spread the Word, such as we read in Acts and the epistles.

I believe that goes without saying but usually the one who established a gathering of believers is the founder. Sometimes it is more than one. My grandmother was one of the founders of the church I grew up in.

I do not believe he was the only one and John could be considered more spiritual. I wouldn't count James out when it comes to spirituality. One may be spiritual and an administrator also.

I believe this sounds like people trying to claim a line of succession rather than reporting facts.
 
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