The Hijab Problem

[Remté]

Glad you mention "except that ISIS mentions the Koran"
That seems proof enough to me that ISIS has someting to do with the Koran
Where there is smoke there is fire usually

I do remember quite a few Koran verses
That can easily be "ISIS interpretated"
Some are even hard to "not ISIS interpretate"

I would agree if you would have said "ISIS has not so much to do with Spirituality, just don't go that far to say it has nothing to do with Koran"

What verses?

It's neither the fault of the book nor of those who believe in it if terrorists use it in propaganda. You're responsible for what you believe. If you let yourself be manipulated - that's your choice.

 

[oldbadger]

In a debate the other side does not get to make up terms and then demand that the other prove that. One can demand that others support their claims. If you read back in this thread you will see where I gave specific examples and quoted sources, with working links, that supported my claims. I merely asked you to do what I had done.

I disagree about that.
And you butted in to my conversation with another.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I disagree about that.
And you butted in to my conversation with another.

It is an open forum. There is no "butting in". If you don't want others to join in then use the PM feature. And yes, I supported my claims. You may have missed it, but that was not my fault. You can only blame yourself for that.

 

[icehorse]

Yes. It has nothing to do with the Quran. Save for that they may mention the name of the book.

If ISIS says they are following the Quran and they are using Muhammad as their role model, by what authority can you tell us that you've got it right and they've got it wrong? Sadly, they seem to have parsimony on their side

 

[Remté]

Sadly, they seem to have parsimony on their side

You imagine that because you can't understand the Quran.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You imagine that because you can't understand the Quran.

This is a false claim that many religions have. Why should anyone believe you when you make it?

 

[Remté]

This is a false claim that many religions have. Why should anyone believe you when you make it?

The claim that said person can't understand the Quran is very much correct. Religions don't have claims. When I make what, a claim? You don't need to believe me when I say they don't understand the Quran. But believing they do for no logical reason is a bit biased.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The claim that said person can't understand the Quran is very much correct. Religions don't have claims. When I make what, a claim? You don't need to believe me when I say they don't understand the Quran. But believing they do for no logical reason is a bit biased.

Let's not not pick. The religious make that claim. And from my experience it is generally the religious that do not understand their own religion. They all tend to make the same error. You should not assume that the reasons of others are without logic when you do not know them.

 

[Remté]

Let's not not pick. The religious make that claim. And from my experience it is generally the religious that do not understand their own religion. They all tend to make the same error.

What error?

You should not assume that the reasons of others are without logic when you do not know them.

You mean the reasons you have given?

 

[stvdv]

What verses?
It's neither the fault of the book nor of those who believe in it if terrorists use it in propaganda. You're responsible for what you believe. If you let yourself be manipulated - that's your choice.

It's not "just terrorists", they happen to be Muslim terrorists who use Koran verses for their actions.

You try to manipulate me to believe you, saying "that I let myself be manipulated". I don't let you manipulate me, nor terrorists
I just see facts "Muslims using Koran verses the violent way". Not smart to ignore that.

You ask for examples. Here you get one.
Just a few weeks ago a Pakistani political figure threatened to nuke Holland, because of a drawing contest of Muhammed
The contest had not even begun and they already threatened to nuke Holland. Quite some overkill
The street in Pakstan were full of angry Muslims willing to nuke Holland
So please don't say I am imagining those things

Or do you agree that it is allowed to nuke a country because they want to do a Muhammed drawing contest?

Talking about manipulation. I would call "nuking a country" some real manipulation. Muslims did this. And they were not even ISIS.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What error?
You mean the reasons you have given?

I doubt if you could understand your error. If you could you probably would not be a believer. Your error is that you believe your religion to be correct without sufficient evidence for that belief. I have yet to meet a theist that could argue rationally for their beliefs. And you did not ask for reasons.

Also flaws in the Quran have been given to you. I cited one specific verse and you never addressed it. For the religious cognitive dissonance is a problem that they run into when their own beliefs are threatened. Do you think that you can do any better?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's not "just terrorists", they happen to be Muslim terrorists who use Koran verses for their actions.

You try to manipulate me to believe you, saying "that I let myself be manipulated". I don't let you manipulate me, nor terrorists
I just see facts "Muslims using Koran verses the violent way". Not smart to ignore that.

You ask for examples. Here you get one.
Just a few weeks ago a Pakistani political figure threatened to nuke Holland, because of a drawing contest of Muhammed
The contest had not even begun and they already threatened to nuke Holland. Quite some overkill
The street in Pakstan were full of angry Muslims willing to nuke Holland
So please don't say I am imagining those things

Or do you agree that it is allowed to nuke a country because they want to do a Muhammed drawing contest?

Talking about manipulation. I would call "nuking a country" some real manipulation. Muslims did this. And they were not even ISIS.

Let's not even use this example. Since flaws in the Quran have been asked for perhaps a specific verse would do. I have yet to see one defend this one:

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Remté abusing the rating system is against the rules here.

 

[Remté]

You ask for examples. Here you get one.
Just a few weeks ago a Pakistani political figure threatened to nuke Holland, because of a drawing contest of Muhammed
The contest had not even begun and they already threatened to nuke Holland. Quite some overkill
The street in Pakstan were full of angry Muslims willing to nuke Holland
So please don't say I am imagining those things.

More like half a year ago, wasn't it? Made by a political extremist who was arrested since then over his extremism in his own country.

And no they weren't angry Muslims willing to nuke Holland. They were understandable protests as a separate matter from the speeches of Rizvi.

 

[Subduction Zone]

More like half a year ago, wasn't it? Made by a political extremist who was arrested since then over his extremism in his own country.

And no they weren't angry Muslims willing to nuke Holland. They were understandable protests as a separate matter from the speeches of Rizvi.

What do you mean "understandable protests"? Are you claiming that the average Muslim is very immature and that somehow makes their protest understandable?

 

[icehorse]

You imagine that because you can't understand the Quran.

For the third time now I'll ask you: Why should we believe that you understand the Quran better than I do? Why should we believe you understand it better than ISIS does?

 

[Remté]

Also flaws in the Quran have been given to you. I cited one specific verse and you never addressed it.

You mean 4:89? That I did respond to you about.

 

[Shad]

And no they weren't angry Muslims willing to nuke Holland. They were understandable protests as a separate matter from the speeches of Rizvi.

Except for the fact that many were angry and want to nuke Holland.

Geert Wilders’ Muhammad cartoon contest sparks Pakistani-Dutch diplomatic rift

 

[Remté]

What do you mean "understandable protests"?

Taking into account their religious views it is understandable. The whole idea of the contest was made to provoke besides.

 

[Remté]

For the third time now I'll ask you: Why should we believe that you understand the Quran better than I do? Why should we believe you understand it better than ISIS does?

Because it is obvious that to understand it well you must be sincere and study, research - read.