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Featured The Hijab Problem

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by 9-18-1, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. 9-18-1

    9-18-1 Active Member

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    The hijab is a symptom (result/consequence) of the underlying problem of misogyny (covetousness of women by men) and a degrading (and degraded) solution to another underlying problem (that is) sexual degeneracy; which pervades not only Islam, but essentially all religious institutions.

    It is clear that Muhammadans especially typically view women as first and foremost objects of/for sex and/or sexual gratification(s). As a result, sexually degenerated men (whose minds are constantly occupied by viewing women through the lens of sex) act out on these imaginations which manifests in the form of abuse. If a woman is raped in Islam, the fault is her own, and thus we find the genesis of the hijab: a symbol of 'modesty'.

    However, the 'problem' is not with the women, but with the men who sexualize women. This is precisely what Muhammad represents: the sexualization of women and degrading them into a status/value of what they are "worth" to other men. As a result, women are "worth" more if they are young and/or virgin. Islam essentially uses women as a form of currency: given freely to jihadists as captives of war (which can be used as sex slaves) and men allowed marrying up to four women.

    This treatment of women (of which the hijab is a symbol) is essentially why the planet is being destroyed: the feminine aspect is naturally nurturing (mother) and is required for life (womb). The patriarchal religious institutions of the world (which utilize male central figures as models/idols) systemically erodes the status of women away from the most essential part of creation to the most coveted and abused. Such is the nature of religion; and such is the nature of Islam especially.

    Unfortunately, for many women (especially in Saudi Arabia and Iran), the hijab is not even a choice for them. Their male "guardians" enforce it along with the state, and many non-Muslim women in European countries are wearing one just to avoid being raped by a Muhammadan. The default perspective of Islam regarding a non-hijab woman is her being (like) a whore. As is obvious, the problem begins with how Islam instructs its male adherents to view women - no doubt directly pointing back to the central idol of Islam: Muhammad who was, no doubt, a sexually degenerated warlord that made a currency out of women.

    This is essentially the central 'problem' on the planet, but it probably won't be for a few hundred years until humanity wakes up out of these idolatrous institutions and re-realizes the importance of the balance of genders and the unique role the women play in creation: no less important than mother nature herself (which is almost herself dead).

    I would be willing to bet: restoring the status of women would likewise restore the planet. Of course the only way to prove this to be true is to actually restore the status of women, which I personally won't hold my breath for but it stands as it is: restore women, restore the planet. And the first place to look is: Islam.

    It is a machine that preys on women.
     
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  2. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    hijab is equally for men and women.
     
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  3. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I would soften this only a little and say: "One of the first places to look is Islam".

    It's certainly also the case that capitalism unchecked is another institution that needs some serious scrutiny.
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    If the hijab was freely chosen by women I would have no problem with it. The fact is that it is not. It is forced on them and is a sign of sexual inequality since there is no similar pressure put on men to wear a garment to cover themselves up. If a women should be shamed for not covering her face the same should apply to men.
     
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  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    When I read a comment about the hijab, I substitute something else to see the result. To me, a topless women substitution fits pretty well:

    [Not allowing women to go topless] is a symptom (result/consequence) of the underlying problem of misogyny (covetousness of women by men) and a degrading (and degraded) solution to another underlying problem (that is) sexual degeneracy;
     
  6. 9-18-1

    9-18-1 Active Member

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    Islam is essentially a hybrid of socialist rule funding capitalist expansion. It was spreading by the sword over a thousand years before "capitalist" US even existed. Anyone who attempts to raise the argument (as Muslims and/or apologists often do) that the problem in the Middle East is all caused by the State of Israel and/or the US ("zionism") are absolutely confused. Islam literally exploded outward in all directions by the sword and is guilty of just as much (if not more) "capitalist expansion" than anyone else.

    It is also illegally occupying land which was held by Jews - Islam itself establishing the fictitious 'State of Palestine' while accusing other of being the occupiers.

    Islam loves to blame everyone else for what itself is guilty of. This is the phenomena of psychological projection and the illness Muhammad most certainly had.

    There is a big, big difference between hair and breasts. The hair on the top of someone's head *should* have absolutely nothing to do with sex and/or invoking sexual imaginations unless one is sexually degenerated. Exposed breasts is an entirely different story - humanity is nowhere near (anymore) the point of staying such sexual imaginations upon the sight of naked breasts. Protected areas (such as beaches) fit this need well for women who wish to have their skin exposed to the sun. Otherwise the substitution is ridiculous.
     
  7. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Even a topless woman wouldn’t be an invitation to rape though, so there is still degeneracy in the minds of some of the Muslim clergy
     
  8. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Hot take: every single Abrahamic religion, or religion or culture which requires subservient female gender roles, treats women poorly. Every single one.

    Until we dispense with this outdated traditionalist idea, trading out religious labels won't help. Nor will removing religious labels from the equation.
    (Looking at you, enamored with Jordan 'birth control started the downfall of western civilization' Peterson.)
     
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  9. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    As opposed to what?
    The USA capitalist machine that convinces women that they need makeup, high heels, and short skirts?
    Like that's better?
    Tom
     
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  10. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    No, it's not. Men are never required to wear it. But places like Saudi Arabia and Iran do require women to wear it.

    We have no laws requiring women to wear them. That is a very huge difference. In Iran, women have no choice, lest they face beatings, jail sentences, and harsh social ostracization.
     
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  12. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Now overlay a map of levels in poverty and see if it matches physical security of women better. It certainly would explain the colors in central and south America and areas of Russia and China better.
     
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  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I have no doubt we'd find a link. Poverty and security are rarely found together, and having literate and educated women tends to go a very long way in reducing poverty, which reduces crime.
     
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  14. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Sorry, just trying to sort the NONSENSE
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    Wow, that sounds pretty ranty.

    Head covering for women is throughout the Abrahamic faiths.

    Certain sects of Judaism use it, but most don't know because often the women just use a wig. :)

    Head covering is in the Bible but the various cultures have abrogated the practice. It is seen in 1 Cor. 11. In other places it is simply assumed. I won't dig it all out right now, but you can do it for yourself if you like. I think I remember a few places in the OT.

    So, dising Muslim women for doing it is disingenuous.
     
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  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    And so, basically, you don't like Islam too much?

    Where I live many of the young (that's males and females) are in to the 'hoodie', and it's more than a fashion trend to have the face and all the head covered when in public places. I myself wear a full face and head covering when I go out just now, with just my eyes visible, but for me it's all about comfort.

    Could you be so kind as to post a picture of your idea of the fully free emancipated woman? That might help.
     
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  16. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    I'm talking about the hijab spoken of in the Quran. It is mentioned in the Quran but doesn't have anything to do with a head scarf. And it is equally for men and women.
     
  17. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Sorry, just trying to sort the NONSENSE
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    She's speaking of the "Practice of Hijab" which is to be observed by both women and men. Men are to not expose above the knees and (I'm unsure of this part) nothing less than a tee shirt above.

    For the Jews, just look at the Old Testament.

    Yes, so the Christians are just slobs. :)
     
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  18. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    I was just reading about Renaissance Italy and the role of Girolamo Savonarola who waged a crusade against what he saw as moral degeneracy among other things. The comparison is a loose one, but there are common elements that I think fit:

    Buoyed by liberation and prophetic promise, the Florentines embraced Savonarola's campaign to rid the city of "vice". At his repeated insistence, new laws were passed against "sodomy" (which included male and female same-sex relations), adultery, public drunkenness, and other moral transgressions, while his lieutenant Fra Silvestro Maruffi organised boys and young men to patrol the streets to curb immodest dress and behaviour.

    Girolamo Savonarola - Wikipedia
     
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  19. 9-18-1

    9-18-1 Active Member

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    Bingo! It is true: the Abrahamic god is essentially a misogynist god.

    Is this a serious question? This is advocating to strip women of their right to choose - nobody convinces anyone of anything, people themselves can (as they should) make choices. If a woman chooses to wear makeup, high heels, and short skirts, let her. It is not the place of the man to dictate what a woman can and can not do - anything less than this is misogyny, which you just advocated.

    How about men leave women alone?

    Right - as ADigitalArtist correctly stated: every single Abrahamic religion enforces women subservience to men.

    I also don't care what is in the Bible or the Qur'an: they are both man-made. People who worship these books and imbue them with an authority they don't actually have is part of the problem which, once again, started with the Abrahamic faiths. First the Jews claim they are in possession of the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god. Then, the Muslims claim the same about their book, and now hundreds of millions are dead and both books are man-made. This is seriously how pathetic the Abrahamic cults are.

    I'm not dissing Muslim women, they dis themselves. I am talking about the hijab as a symbol of oppression as instituted by the institution of Islam as an Abrahamic faith.

    The problem with these Abrahamic cults is people taking offense: if someone says something they don't like, they become offended and take it "personally". For example Muslims take criticisms of Islam personally, of Muhammad personally (which is idol worship), of the Qur'an personally, of the hijab personally etc. and are triggered into action which often leads to spilling of blood. This is what these Abrahamic cults are: cults of "believer" vs. "unbeliever" that always ends in bloodshed. This is precisely what Muhammad represents: if you don't agree with me, I'll kill you. This is fascism, and Muhammad is probably the father of it. This is the man that Muslims worship for a living, though they don't recognize it for what it is because idol worships, as with insane persons, do not have the ability to introspect and assess themselves - especially for that which they accuse others of before questioning themselves.

    It's not about like or dislike - it's about understanding the problem(s), where it started, when, why etc. This polarization people fall into is precisely what leads to extremism: it doesn't matter left or right, dislike or like, west or east etc. this is all meaningless when it comes to actually understanding the problem and knowing what is true, which has no polarization in itself. It's only people that don't "like" the truth that polarize negatively against it. This is precisely what happens with idol worship: Muslims don't like to be told that Muhammad was a polygamous sexually degenerated pedophile warlord that cut off peoples heads for a living. That's exactly what he was and did, but because Muslims imagine an idolatrous Muhammad who was the greatest role model for humanity (this is pure idol worship) and treated women with respect (he didn't - he said they were stupid) they polarize negatively and call for spilling of blood citing blasphemy laws. This is absolutely a mental illness, as China correctly said it is.

    This foreshadows the Edenic dilemma (just to borrow from the literature that none of the religious institutions actually understand) of eating from the tree of knowledge: that eating from it causes death. Of course: if you eat from the tree and become polarized, whatever you are polarized with/against will be the same thing that ends up killing you, because the polarization is locally inside and manifests on the outside. However uniting both sides and finding where/how they are actually one (not two in opposition) allows one to understand the problem. This understanding is absolutely fundamental to deriving actual wisdom - you can't derive wisdom from anything unless you understand something first.

    This is the basis of the idol worshiping Christians' statement from Jesus "I am the truth, the way and the life; nobody comes to the father but by me". Life is binah (understanding), the way is wisdom (chokmah) and truth is with the father (crown) - in other words, a translation would be "I am crowned wisdom and understanding; nobody becomes crowned except through wisdom." This is the meaning: you have to understand something fully before you can derive wisdom leading to truth. It's the same action as the first day of creation: fiat lux or 'let there be light,' and being able to separate light (truth) from darkness (untruth). Most Jews/Christians/Muslims don't even realize the days of creation are how creation 'happens' as opposed to 'happened' because they are reading these books historically and trying to make them in the past. The book of Genesis means "generations" as in, it's constantly happening - not mundanely in the past.

    But I have digressed and simply end with: what the hell would a picture do? This isn't about how women *look* on the outside, it is how they are treated/regarded by men in general that leads to things like the hijab. This is the same objectification of women that misogyny begets - the hijab is a symbol of oppression and is, as in the OP, a symptom of a deeper problem that is covetousness. And you ask me to produce a picture? A fully respected and liberated woman is one who is not sexually objectified - what she is wearing has nothing to do with that, it is the men who need to stop sexually objectifying them, which is precisely what Muhammadan men do with women who do not wear the hijab. The sickness is in the mind of the Muhammadan men - not the woman.
     
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  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    And so.... what?
    Where I live Muslim youth is as different to Muslim extremism as could be.

    You're not trying to tell us that Caesar, or Genghis Kan, or Cleopatra were better, nicer, sweeter more wonderful folks I hope?

    That begs the question: Just who and what do you hold in high regard, trust and esteem? :shrug:


    I don't believe that!
    Many of the wonderful discoveries have been found by accident, humanity fell over them! :)

    I don't mind what other people believe, in fact I usually acknowledge other people's faiths, religions, cultures etc. I can only think of one religion which I heartily criticise because it's every word or sentence seems like a 'sell' to me.

    But I've gotta tell you........ your thread and posts here seem like a 'sell' as well, only you seem like the folks that I sometimes see in our town squares, ranting and shouting as they wave their hands around......... I give them good distance as I walk past. :

    Ah.... so you had trouble with that?

    No it isn't, not for all Muslim women.
    Around here, when a Muslim woman wears hijab it's usually because she feels more comfortable with it. We have good laws here to protect people from oppression etc, and many Muslim women are happy to just wear head scarves. :shrug:

    Look..... you couldn't do it!
    Many many women follow fashions in dress, make-up, footwear etc, just to be more attractive to others! The top womens magazines focus upon 'attraction' and they are the top mags because women buy them.

    My wife's colleagues are mostly all in to 'attractiveness' and go as far as to have breast enhancements and botox treatments.

    You should research more in to who women are, what women want and what they strive for 'IN GENERAL' and that might help to relax your intensity over the subject of Gender Equality and more.

    Honestly. :)
     
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